Set Up A Call

Download the Free High Performance Health Starter Kit

Fill out the perform to get started on your High Performance Journey.

Men Made For More Podcast Episode 113: Feet As Your Foundation, The Olympics, Finding Passion and Purpose with Matt Zanis

guestepisode Dec 31, 2020

Want to know the foundation to movement and emotional confidence? Then we’ve got a good one for you today. If your neglecting your feet - your body is going to suffer when it comes to feeling and performing your best. If you’re not following your passion and finding your true purpose, then your mind and soul will never be able to feel and perform your best. Listen up today to learn how to address not only improve your physical performance, but discover your passion and your purpose in life along the way. 

You can reach Matt at his website  or @rootedinmvmnt on Instagram and check out his blogs about his training philosophy at

Listen to this episode on your favorite podcast app click HERE 

Men Made For More Podcast Episode 113: Feet As Your Foundation, The Olympics, Finding Passion and Purpose with Matt Zanis

[00:00:00] Dave: Welcome to the Men Made For More Podcast, a show designed by men for men looking to get strong, feel confident, and live a high performing life. As men, we face many challenges as we try and strive for a better life. We want to live a meaningful and competent life. The don't know where to start. You've lost your physical and mental edge and it's keeping you from living out your full potential. You tired of talking about doing big things and you're ready to start living it with the men made for more podcasts. The goal is to teach you how to strengthen your body, your mind. And your purpose and your way to reaching your full potential. It's time to start living as a man.

[00:00:34] You know, you can be to help lift those up that matter the most in your life. Every week, we'll have a featured guest who will share valuable information and experience to give you actionable strategies. You can apply to live as a man you were made to go drawn or guests, knowledge and experience. More importantly, we will discuss how this applies to the common challenges and struggles with being a man in today's world.

[00:00:55] Our goal is to not only build strong men physically, but to help coach and develop strong [00:01:00] friends, sons, brothers, fathers, business owners, and professionals in every area of your life. I'm your host, Dr. Dave Paczkowski,  proud husband, business owner, physical therapist and strength coach with a passion for helping other men strengthen their body, their mind, and their purpose, wherever you're at on your journey.

[00:01:19] I'm excited to have you here with us today. Now let's dive in today's episode of the Men Made For More podcast.

[00:01:27]Hey guys, welcome to today's guest episode of the men made for more podcast. I am joined with very special guest Matt zaniness, and this is going to be a great one coming your way today guys, because Matt is one of those people that I have learned so much from over the years. And one of the people that I really respect highly in terms of his background and knowledge as a.

[00:01:50] A physical therapist as a strength coach is just a movement practitioner. Who's experimented and done so much as you'll, as you'll see. I don't want to steal too much of his thunder with his [00:02:00] bio, but he's worked with the Olympic teams. He has a heavy role in power athlete. He's had multiple businesses online coaching and just really a wealth of knowledge.

[00:02:11] So I am really excited to have him on here today. Uh, we talk everything from. Your feet as your foundation and how important they are. And he'll emphasize even more. So how important they are as our foundation and sort of the foundation for everything that we're doing when it comes to movement. And we also get into, uh, so many other things from just following your passion, finding your purpose, living with confidence, moving with confidence and just being vulnerable and avoiding, you know, the imposter syndrome and the things that we can so commonly fall into as guys.

[00:02:46] So this is packed with good information. I am extremely excited for this and, uh, thankful that I was able to take some time to get on here. And I'm excited for you guys too. Uh, take away some great stuff from this. So let's dive in and let's [00:03:00] get started.

[00:03:00] Dave: [00:03:00] Matt welcome to the Men Made For More podcast. I'm stoked to have you on here today. My man.

[00:03:05] Matt: [00:03:05] Oh, thanks for having me. This has been a long time coming. My friend

[00:03:09] Dave: [00:03:09] Yeah, we, uh, we selfishly just wanted to catch up on camera and hit record with it. It's been, it's been a long time, but I'm excited to have you on here today.

[00:03:18] Matt: [00:03:18] Oh, so am I, we should've kept that pre-show recording going. Cause I'm sure people would have loved to hear that conversation.

[00:03:25] Dave: [00:03:25] Yeah, we'll, we'll keep that one off recording just for the sake of the sake of people listening. But for those that are not familiar with you that are following you on media, why don't you give, uh, you know, as general of a background as you can for your story personally and professionally, where you're at, what you're up to.

[00:03:37] Cause I know you have a lot of stuff going on.

[00:03:40] Matt: [00:03:40] Oh, geez. Yeah, I know that we have two hours to just dive into, into my background. Um, I'll try and keep this kind of short and sweet, but I tend to get long-winded. So just go ahead and interrupt me if you feel the need to, but I'm just essentially a small town boy who grew up in the Backwoods of.

[00:03:56] Pennsylvania. Um, but yeah, I am a doctor of physical therapy, a [00:04:00] strength coach. I've been moving with a, you know, a movement translator, an expert movement translator. It's kind of like my role or designation lately. Um, just to kind of shake things up and to shine a little more light into exactly what it is I do.

[00:04:11] Uh, but I grew up in Backwoods, Pennsylvania, hunting, fishing, shooting, and. Playing sports at a pretty mediocre level, actually, uh, people look at me like, Oh, you must be a great athlete, man. I kinda, I kinda sucked. I grew up in a very athletic family and that's kinda like where this whole story started with.

[00:04:27] Um, I grew up in a baseball family, so predominately baseball dad was a left-handed pitcher in college. Mom was actually a collegiate sprinter. Um, grandfather was actually drafted by the pirates back in the sixties. So blood and like that short sprinting power athlete type of, uh, Athleticism was kind of in my blood or, or so I thought so naturally I kind of gravitated towards, you know, trying to impress dad and play baseball.

[00:04:49] I just wasn't naturally gifted at it, man. I was, I was terrible. Like I had a hard time learning how to throw. Um, I was awkward. I think my brother got all the natural genetic gifts, four years younger than me too. You know [00:05:00] how like humbling. It is. And also refreshing at the same time to watch your younger brother like excel at everything.

[00:05:06] It's, it's terrible. It's terrible. Like he was the kid that learned how to ride a bike. At four, I was eight years old. I learned how to ride a bike. Like he was a naturally skinny kid. I was like a character from heavyweights being yelled at by Ben Stiller. Seriously, like I was that genetic trashcan, so to speak.

[00:05:23] And the only thing that had going for me really, it was that a really, I was a really hard worker. Like I always wanted to try and impress people. I was kind of a people pleaser back then as a kid and worked really hard, practicing, more, throwing, more, batting, more running more, but I just kept getting hurt.

[00:05:37] Year after year after year, all these nagging injuries couldn't seem to keep myself healthy in out of physical therapy. Uh, and I broken like dozens of bones in my body. I was kind of like that injury prone kid that everybody talks about. And then I found weight training in high school. And that kind of is where things started to shift for me.

[00:05:55] I actually grew up in a time period where they thought weight training was bad for baseball players. And [00:06:00] we know we couldn't have been more wrong now. Uh, but as you know, I mean, Dave, I kind of go against the grain and kind of a rogue thinker. I, I sort of speak, I think. And, um, I found a weight room in, in high school and started falling in love of the weights.

[00:06:14] And a couple of things happened then is that I realized that if I moved really well and I added a lot of and resistance, these patterns that all these nagging injuries seem to start to disappear. But then it's also the point where I realized that, Hey, I'm a much better coach and athlete and a much better provider than a player.

[00:06:30] And I just loved working with people. Loved working with people. Um, I joke that I'm probably the most extroverted introvert there is out there. Uh, cause I need that like alone time to recharge, but I just love being around people interacting. And so that's kind of where this whole philosophy of movement and strength and conditioning, uh, kind of took root philosophy into my athletic training degree at the University of Pittsburgh.

[00:06:53] And then finally down to get my doctorate from Duke in North Carolina. And it was through Duke that I actually [00:07:00] made my way out here to Arizona having an internship with the Arizona Cardinals. So, uh, worked for the Pittsburgh Pirates for a year here before going to, um, PT school and then had the internship with the Cardinals.

[00:07:12] So always been involved in kind of high level sports. And it's just been, it's been a fricking roller coaster ride dude. Um, over the years from everything to working in insurance-based clinics, uh, one owned by a PT for the PGA tour. And eventually then, uh, opening up my own practice back in 2016, which is exactly where we met then through, D PT entrepreneur mastermind.

[00:07:36] So I think that that was good. Isn't it? Yeah.

[00:07:40] Dave: [00:07:40] Um, I'm impressed. I'm impressed. You kept that short. I don't think we hit on everything now. Cause you have a couple of other things you're still up to in terms of Olympics and power athlete. You want to give a brief overview on that as well?

[00:07:51] Matt: [00:07:51] Yes. And that's kind of like, um, you know, everything happens for a reason. Like you make decisions that are based off the best information that you have at the time. I think that they do [00:08:00] lead you down the path you're supposed to be going down and excuse me, his back in 2016, where, you know, I had enough of the insurance-based clinics that was.

[00:08:10] Burnt out only after two years. I mean, I was, um, essentially the guy who everybody wanted to come see the clinic and people didn't, you know, clink the records didn't like that. And I was seeing four people an hour and, you know, I just couldn't, I couldn't be in that situation anymore because I realized that it wasn't, it wasn't them like they're are great people, you know, it was just a system in and of itself.

[00:08:31] And I had a much more entrepreneurial mindset than I once thought that I had. So. I took a risk and jumped ship and opened up shop in the back of a CrossFit gym. Just do a cable back there and started seeing clients. Uh, but that. From that standpoint, it opened the doors for so many different opportunities because now I had time, I had my time back, which is the most valuable, I think, commodity that we have.

[00:08:51] And it was through having that time that I actually had the opportunity to work with, um, uh, the power ethic guy. So John Luke and texts [00:09:00] connected with them. They came out and taught a seminar, became three best friends that anyone could have. And, uh, just been, just been able and been blessed actually to be able to write for them.

[00:09:10] And start to develop some programs with them lately there out of Austin, Texas, if anybody doesn't know that. Uh, but then also around the same time it was the winter of the year. They opened up my practice, uh, PT, mentor of mine, Robert Duvall. Um, what I had. Through PT school at Duke from Atlanta, Georgia. He actually reached out and he had done work with very United States Olympic teams back in like the late eighties, early nineties, and asked if I ever had any interest or wanting an opportunity of working with these guys and girls.

[00:09:39] I was like, say less, say less. Just who do I need to talk to? Right. So he put me in contact with them. And I guess that like what I had to say. So I've been working with the United States Olympic team, summer sports now for the past three years. And, um, specifically, um, traveling around with our United States shooting team.

[00:09:55] So shotgun rifle and pistol kind of going back to my own roots, growing up in Backwoods, [00:10:00] Pennsylvania. Um, I shot archery for a while, shot a lot of trap and skeet with my dad and I've always been around guns. So I kind of fell in naturally with their movement patterns and what exactly it was that they were experiencing.

[00:10:11] And, you know, they were the underserved population, right. They are the ones that were written  off, they were not actually considered athletes in many people's eyes. And I'm like, really these guys and girls have like some of the best hand-eye coordination I've ever seen. I played baseball. Like that's, that's a lot.

[00:10:28] I got a lot to say. Um, so they helped make a lot of positive changes with them. So I've been traveling around the world with them the past three years. And you know, we, we don't have the Olympics this year because of the whole COVID situation, but we've got 20, 21 in Tokyo coming up. So super excited about that too.

[00:10:44] Dave: [00:10:44] and the team has been, I mean, what, what's the progression of the team, Ben, since you've been there and implemented some of those things I know I've seen, I mean, I've at least followed up on, on your stories and everything. And seeing you got a lot of good, good athletes there that seem to be improving.

[00:10:58] Matt: [00:10:58] Yeah. Um, and I [00:11:00] guess that's like the part of my story that kind of left out because, uh, the perspective that I view movement through through the feet, like I've been joking now for the past couple of years that I had this kind of low key foot fetish, but it's really not low key anymore. It's a major foot fetish, just not in the way that you think it is.

[00:11:14] Um, because you know, the feet are absolutely. The starting point of all human movement. And it's the one thing that connects every single one of us to the ground. And nobody was looking at that in the shooting athletes and not just the shooting out these I'm talking to all, all sports, but that's kind of where I started, um, with these men and women.

[00:11:32] And it starts to make a lot of positive changes because I was changing the way that they were directing the forces and the ground reaction forces and the energy. Uh, through their feet. So we started getting them into a more low profile shoe and teaching them how to actually feel the feet and shift weight, which has direct translation up into how they move the gun.

[00:11:49] Um, so it's even more so specifically with the shotgun shooters who have a lot of rotational requirements of them in their sport. Um, so I was able to make a lot of quick changes cause you know, it's low hanging fruit. You make a small little change [00:12:00] in the feet and have a large trickle up, I guess.

[00:12:03] Perfect. Uh, in this case, the rest of the body, and we saw a lot of rates of injury, go down, pain presentations, go down, and a lot of performance increase. We've got some guys and girls are now moving on to their third and fourth Olympics in a row, which is just absolutely amazing. And they're shooting some of the best scores of their lives.

[00:12:22] Dave: [00:12:22] it's so cool to see. And the feet being such a big piece of that. I know we want to want to dive deep into that. There's one other thing in your background, though, I'm just personally curious about, and you mentioned this thing in high school of kind of getting into weights. What. Where you, where you self-taught at that time or where, where did, uh, where did some key mentors enter the picture in terms of, was it just self-learn and hustling on the, the T nation articles?

[00:12:45] Or was it, uh, w did you have a mentor step in your life or someone kind of in that high school or college phase? Yeah.

[00:12:52] Matt: [00:12:52] You know, I want to thank you for this because nobody's ever asked me that question before. Um, but one of my very earliest [00:13:00] memories is actually as a toddler, I think going to this grungy old gym with my dad, that's kind of where. This whole love for the started. Like I vividly remember climbing up 

[00:13:11] and down to all the machines and like the decline benches and all that. And I think so that just kind of like naturally stuck with me. So there was that like this thing for, um, for when I found it in, in high school, but like, I'll be completely a hundred percent honest with you too, Dave. Uh, it wasn't just like the performance benefits that I was after.

[00:13:28] I remember I was that fat kid. Right. So I saw weight training as a way to transform my body. And let's be honest. What does every dude want to do in high school? It's a 10,000 reps of bench press because he want to try to impress the ladies. That's what I was after. And I just so happened to see all these positive benefits come, uh, afterwards with, you know, not getting hurt and actually getting stronger and moving better.

[00:13:53] Um, but as far as like, uh, mentors, We're concerned. My God loved my high school football [00:14:00] coaches, but they were not the best weight coaches. Um, they're very transactional in nature. Uh, what I mean by that is they required you to hit a certain number. Like I vividly remember me being, I was a defensive lineman and 180 pounds.

[00:14:15] I was fast though. So just keep that in mind. Um, at 180 pounds, we had a requirement. If we wanted to start the defensive line, we had a back squat, 315. Right. It wasn't like, okay, you're moving 275, really fast and powerfully. It's not yet the back squat, 315. So I knew were going to start. So of course, what do we do?

[00:14:33] Come hell or high water. We're throwing 315 in the bar and see if you can squat at once. And it looked like dog shit, but it didn't matter because the weights were all that mattered to those coaches. Uh, so it really, really wasn't until me getting to undergrad at the University of Pittsburgh and falling into, um, I guess my, my first, first side hustle as a male model, uh, where I started taking the, um, The strength conditioning game a little bit more [00:15:00] seriously.

[00:15:00] And yeah, reading all the muscle and fitness and team nation, and really just trying to soak up any knowledge that I could. But I was also comparing that with my knowledge and my education. I was getting from the athletic training program. Like University of Pittsburgh had a pretty solid strength game.

[00:15:17] There. And I can't remember the strain coach's name when I was there, but he's the one who inspired me to look deeper into like biomechanics and how the body actually functions under load and learning how to create tension and pressure. And actually back then, they were talking about the feet, but not to the capacity that we are now.

[00:15:31] So that's kind of, I guess, where all the light bulb moments started going off and really just. Propelled me and dude, like I've been through so many different phases seasons of my life when it comes to all this weight training in it and that athleticism stuff. I mean, I went from the team sports of high school to the whole aesthetics bodybuilding game all the way through power lifting and CrossFit.

[00:15:53] And then back into the power athletes stuff and training like an athlete again, into now more of this, I don't know if you've been seeing what I've been [00:16:00] doing on the grands lately, but I got a little thing called project balls to the floor. Uh, so I'm really trying to learn, to control my joints through the fullest range of motion possible going after these, uh, middle, forward, backwards splits and some really crazy, you know, feats of human strife with an iron cross and a single arm pull up and different handset.

[00:16:19] Variations and handstand pushups in the middle of the room. So very much more calisthenic based. Um, but the thing that ties them all together are the lessons learned, right? There were some valuable, valuable lessons. I learned every single one of those phases that looking back on now just kind of really set the trajectory into what I'm doing.

[00:16:37] Dave: [00:16:37] Yeah, no, I love it. I appreciate sharing that. You're, you know, I genuinely mean this Matt. You're one of the people from the performance movement side of things that I. Look up to the most in terms of just this complete picture, just because I think of your diverse background, where there's some people that can respect and certain sides of that.

[00:16:54] There's some people that, you know, value ascetics more and there's some people that just are like, here's how to push as much [00:17:00] weight. And then there's the people a little more maybe in just like the body control or the mobility side of it. And you seem to have this unique blend around all those. And I think is that kind of all those things kind of morphed into what you teach today.

[00:17:14] Matt: [00:17:14] Yeah. So, um, I've taken, I think a little bit from every single one of them. And I live by a Bruce Lee quote that is empty your cup. So always be like a continual learner. So empty your cup to be able to take in new information and to utilize what's useful to you and discard the rest. Um, but in order to do so, I think you need to have.

[00:17:35] No your own awareness of where you're going and your purpose and your values in life, and you know, your philosophy on things. And you're able to then integrate all the different little facets and nuances of these different disciplines to really become a more holistic provider and practitioner. And that's kind of what I've been striving for over the years.

[00:17:53] Cause it's like you always have that impostor syndrome phenomenon going on where you kind of feel like you're [00:18:00] not good enough in a certain space, but you're really good enough. That's exactly where you are. Uh, as long as you just continue to know that you're not gonna know everything and be okay with that and acknowledge it and just continue to push the needle forward.

[00:18:13] Um, but I think that's one of the biggest problems with, you know, this age of information that we live in, especially on like all the different social media is there's a lot of Instagram porn out there where you're seeing a lot of stuff that's being portrayed, but it's all out of context. And it's tough to take that information because.

[00:18:30] You know, I think we're so used to being taught nowadays that we don't ever actually learn anything. Right. There's so much information there'll be ever applies. It. All right. And I think that's where we start to run in problem, run into problems. And it does start to give you that feeling of the imposter syndrome, because you see all these other people doing so many different things, but there is something that you can learn from it.

[00:18:51] If you just dive a little bit deeper, but the key is you actually have to apply it. And I think that that's what I've been so good as I've, I've put myself through the ringer and put myself through the fire, [00:19:00] um, through experience and being able to test out all these different modes and disciplines of movement.

[00:19:06] And then you. The lives, what I feel is right for that person that I'm seeing from an athlete or client standpoint.

[00:19:13] Dave: [00:19:13] Yeah, testing on yourself, testing on other people. And I think that's, you know, your experience speaks for itself, but I know, uh, Instagram is that's the whole reason. It got a little bit away from Instagram. A little more into podcasting is because Instagram so incomplete with our thoughts and people you spend all this time.

[00:19:31] And I'm sure you've seen it pouring into a post and writing this stuff. And someone just sees the image, likes it and goes on. And it's, it's a harder place to educate in that sense. And that's why I'm excited to have you on here, but one other, uh, w where did the, I know you're wanting to ruffle feathers and kind of go against the grain, like you said, Is that something that's always been there for you too?

[00:19:50] Or is that something cause, cause that takes some, like you said, imposter syndrome can get in the way that a lack of confidence can get in the way of speaking out on stuff. What a, is that something that's always been there? Is that something [00:20:00] you kind of developed over time?

[00:20:03] Matt: [00:20:03] Oh, that's actually really good. Um, because growing up, I was always the kid who did what he was told type of thing. Um, it's actually from like my parents, I was like the star child from, uh, I guess that's I was older. I had my priorities in line. Like I was always a straight A student, always made sure I had my, you know, my, uh, tasks and assignments done on time.

[00:20:23] And my little brother kind of went against the grain on that standpoint. Um, so I was always a conformer and this kind of this dive deep into like my own personal history with things as well. And with the, you know, the past few years of what I've been through from a relationship standpoint and whatnot, but I was always trying to be something that everybody else wanted me to be, and that ended like four years ago. Right. So I started to be like, you know, I need to, I need to listen to my own self, right? I need to listen to what I believe and what, you know, my brain is telling me my heart is telling me what my gut is telling [00:21:00] me. And just to start to make decisions based off of those, not care, how other people think.

[00:21:05] And I've been living by this mantra also the past couple of years is to be unapologetically authentic to myself. Right. And I'm going to say things that I want to say, I'm going to let you know about my opinion and I'm not going to sugar coat shit. And if we align and work well together, that's great. If not, it's okay too.

[00:21:23] And I don't take offense to it. And then that's, that's totally fine because at the end of the day, like, we're not going to please everybody. Right. So I guess to answer your question, Dave was, I was never really that go against the grain type. I think that it was something that was always inside of me. I just had to cultivate it.

[00:21:39] And bring it out. And I can tell you right now that I have never been happier with things, uh, but also I'd have some of the best relationships and the best fucking community around me now because we are all very, and it doesn't have to be like-minded to the point where we all think alike, but that we all respect each other.

[00:21:57] And then that's the most valuable component of it.

[00:22:00] [00:22:00] Dave: [00:22:00] Yeah, I love that. I think, I think that's a, cause I think a lot of people want to, maybe you don't want to necessarily go against the grain, but they, they bottle up opinions for the same way. And I've, I've been the same way. Like I said, conformer, it's, you know, I was always the kid growing up too that my older brother was, was more of a screw up growing up.

[00:22:15] So I became the older one in a sense. And I always had. The grades in line and more straight edge in nature. And I think it's hard though, to, to break through that. And it, it sounds like you've gotten there, but is that a, no one dive, a little deeper on? Is that like a one-time decision of like, Hey, I'm just going to start doing this.

[00:22:32] Cause a lot of people in theory, they're like, yeah, I would love to, I hear that. I would love to do that, but is it just a series of small decisions? Is it like I made up my mind one day and I'm just doing this,

[00:22:42] Matt: [00:22:42] Uh, yeah, there, there was a made up my mind type of a moment that I had, but it was definitely a just grouping of small decisions over time. It's like anything else, Dave, it's an evolution and it takes reps and it takes practice. Um, and that's kind of where that unapologetic [00:23:00] authenticity mantra came in.

[00:23:01] It's like ever. In this situation and I was, you know, waffling back and forth of what kind of decision I wanted to make. I just came back to that and I need to stay true to who I was. But, um, that, that actually came from a lot of self development work that I did a number of years ago to really like sit down with my own thoughts, you know, fucking scary.

[00:23:18] That is. That's so fucking terrifying to actually sit with your own thoughts and actually, and actually acknowledge them and understand what they're telling you. What and why they're in your head. Um, I think it's the same thing with pain and stuff too. I think, uh, you know, we, we deal with, with so much pain, whether it be physical or emotional, we never take time to actually sit with it.

[00:23:38] Um, cause I wasn't a lot of emotional pain, a number of years back as well. Um, and that's something that I had to work through and it wasn't until I kind of like. I broke the shackles of trying to be something that I wasn't, that I was able to essentially set myself free and have the confidence. I think that was the key was to have the confidence in myself too, to [00:24:00] know that I was making in these diseases based on the values that I have instilled in myself.

[00:24:05] And I wrote them down to, I've got a whole entire couple of pages of like paragraphs that I wrote to myself of my purpose, what I wanted to achieve in this life. And essentially my guardrails. That I set up myself and the non-negotiables that I set into place that are the pillars of, of my life and, and kind of holding me accountable, um, to my own.

[00:24:24] Decision-making

[00:24:26] Dave: [00:24:26] Man, that is so good. And I've, I've actually recently started, started doing the same things and non-negotiables, and the, you know, laying out a mission vision for life laying out, like, what are our core values? We talk about all the time for business, but we never really defined that in, in our life. And, uh, do you want to give a, just a brief overview?

[00:24:44] You want to give like a quick rundown of the X I think listeners would benefit from here and just kind of how you, how you structured that if they're looking to do something similar.

[00:24:51] Matt: [00:24:51] Uh, from the non-negotiable standpoint.

[00:24:53] Dave: [00:24:53] Yeah. Just your kind of how you, how you laid out those couple of pages.

[00:24:58] Matt: [00:24:58] Yeah. Um, at the beginning, the [00:25:00] beginning, there was no structure to it. It was just like free form writing and. The identity, essentially, I distilled it down into the things that bring me joy. Right. But in our business standpoint is the things that make you money or bring you joy. Um, there's that component of it as well.

[00:25:16] So let's be truthful about it. But from a personal standpoint, it was the things that, that bring me joy and give me energy. If they didn't provide me joy, if they weren't that hell yes moment for me, they were gone. Um, so one of them was like, I don't know, just if people give people like a background, like we met, I was married.

[00:25:32] Once before and has since gone through a divorce and that's kind of where all this started for me as I was able to sit down with that and finally realized what I wanted, but that went back from a whole series of past conditioning from parents and like watching them get married at a young age. So, you know, I thought I was behind the eight ball and I got to PT school.

[00:25:50] I found somebody looked good on paper. Um, and then once I'd met them, You know, I was engaged within nine months and it's like hindsight, 20, 20 dummy. Come on. That wasn't the right decision to make there, but it was because I [00:26:00] thought that that's what I was supposed to be doing. Not exactly what I wanted, uh, to be doing, but to answer the question too.

[00:26:06] So I. Kind of sat down and was like, well, what things bring me the most joy in life? And then when I'm looking for a partner to share those experiences with, you know, they need to be able to also share in those non-negotiables. Um, so I came up with a bunch of them, including, um, like a healthy lifestyle, like a movement practice.

[00:26:22] That was number one for me. Like they have to be active. Right. I'm, I'm a very active dude. I'm doing something movement oriented day, single day and day. And it's a high priority for me. So I'm not going to be with somebody who just likes to go to the bar every night and get loaded and not be able to, you know, wake up and go do a workout or go on a hike or something like that.

[00:26:40] Wasn't going to happen. Uh, like another very important thing for me was grow growing up in the Backwoods of Pennsylvania. I'm like, I'm a little redneck, right. You know, that. You can't see it right now with all my long hair that I've grown up since last time that we saw you see each other. Um, but like I grew up hunting and fishing and being in the woods and camping.

[00:26:56] Uh, and so that was that's part of me, like that's part of who I am [00:27:00] and I didn't need necessarily somebody to be out there shooting deer, but needed somebody to actually respect to the fact that that is what I'd like to do. And I enjoy doing it. And just a quick side story. like, uh, my partner Kendall now she was back home with me for Thanksgiving last year and I shot seven point buck and she asked if she can come help or actually watch like skin it and break it down in quarter and cut it, all the meat and everything.

[00:27:24] I was like, yeah, sure. Why not? And then we get there and she's like, can I help? Like, Oh shit. You want this knife? You want to like skin the deer with me. Okay. Go for it. So my uncle is over there, like teaching her the lines, the cut and everything. And I'm watching this, like, my heart is just filling with so much happiness and joy.

[00:27:41] Seeing my dad the biggest smile on his face. And like, she's going to town on this deer. And I got like the sinking, like sickening feeling of fear because I'm like, Holy shit. She's really good at the knife. They're not going to make her mad. Uh, but you know, it's, it's stuff like that, that it makes things easy, dude.

[00:27:58] It really, because if you know what it [00:28:00] is that you want, right. And you've actually taken the time to think about it and write it down, it makes everything else moving forward. That much easier because now you have a system it's just like with business, we develop these systems and processes and we have a system in place for your relationships.

[00:28:15] Do. And make sure that they're gonna be successful. Like are there bumps in the road? Yeah, of course there are. But net the difference comes down to the communication aspect and that natural level of respect that I alluded to earlier with the community that I have now.

[00:28:28] Dave: [00:28:28] Yeah, that's so good. And I think the intentionality is lacking from so many people of it. They're just, you're kind of pinballing through. Through life and whether that's, you know, we can, we can get into fitness. Obviously we can get at anything though, but if you're not really sure on the direction you're heading and you're just kinda like, Oh, I'll try this today.

[00:28:46] And then I'll kinda try this thing or see if this works and you don't really know what you're looking for. It makes it really hard to achieve goals. If you don't know what those goals are and whether they call it, goals, just values, whatever, whatever you want to say. That's important if you're heading [00:29:00] the right direction.

[00:29:01] Yeah.

[00:29:03] Matt: [00:29:03] yeah. Right. And essentially what happens. I'm sure you can relate to this. I feel like we all get there in our own way sometimes. Like we set up these, these roadblocks or barriers for our own success and we're our own worst to me. Um, so just like a quick little side tan story, that's gonna kind of tie all that together because you had alluded to it about where I started to make this pivot and this transition in my life.

[00:29:25] And this was actually on my very first trip at the Olympics. So we've talked about this before, Dave. I know I've had conversations with you where sometimes we feel like we're on an Island. All right. Have you ever had that feeling? You're going to be able to relate to this because you feel isolated, you feel alone.

[00:29:40] Um, and we've talked about it's from the PT standpoint of like, Hey, we're doing things so differently that sometimes we do feel isolated and lonely. Like we are on our own Island and it's like, are we fucking crazy out here in the silent? Um, but my very first trip with the Olympics is actually on an Island in the middle of the Mediterranean called Malta.

[00:29:59] And I was still [00:30:00] married back then. And. No, the relationship was kind of on the rocks a little bit. And there was like talk, going back and forth and fighting and all that. Um, and they're actually like divorce papers presented the whole nine yards. And I go to this Island I'm alone. Right. So I'm legitimately by myself, like away from my wife.

[00:30:18] Um, but during this trip I realized like how much joy had I was on this Island, working with these athletes. I was so fucking passionate. I was fired up. I was waking up with like four hours of sleep and full of energy. And guess what happened? That got closer and closer and closer to her coming. I became more depressed.

[00:30:40] I became sadder, my athletes and my coaches noticed they're like, where did all your energy go to? Like. Where's all the fire like you've been having. And I realized then and there that something needed to change. Um, so from a personal, a personal standpoint, it's like, that was the moment I realized I needed to get a divorce, but then this Island also had a little bit more significance in that it completely changed the [00:31:00] trajectory of the confidence that I built in myself, because while I was there working with my athletes, I started getting athletes from other countries.

[00:31:09] That's tried to come over and work with me. And granted, they brought their own PTs, their own massage therapists, their own athletic trainers with them, but they saw that I was doing something different and I didn't know it back then. Like I was just. You know, doing what I do on a daily basis. The clients here in Arizona and I realize is that for the first time, a lot of these athletes were finally being heard because I would sit with them.

[00:31:31] I would talk with them, I'd get to know them. I'd learn their history. I've learned about their families and what they enjoy and their moving practices outside of the shooting game. And then instead of actually using my hands to like, quote unquote, fix them, I would help them fix themselves through movement. And I was like, Holy shit. There was like the light bulb move, the Pitney. I was like, I'm different. This is why I feel like I'm on an Island is because I literally am doing things so differently, but I [00:32:00] had a switched to perspective, Dave, and this is where I switched it. Instead of feeling isolated and feeling alone, I was going to start calling people to my Island.

[00:32:07] I fucking discovered this Island. Right. Just like you discover your own Island with what you do out there in San Diego. And I got to start calling people to it and more and more people come and then we'll start to develop this community and guess what? Now it's not so alone. So that metaphorical Island, I thought that I was on became the reality of the Island that I was legitimately on in the middle of the Mediterranean that shifted the trajectory for me, and now pushed me forward and exactly what it is I am doing now with all the momentum and steam behind.

[00:32:36] Dave: [00:32:36] I love that. That is so good. And I love that. Analogy and that story cause it's, you know, people listening, they might be, yeah, I know where we were going to go with this conversation. I love every bit of it, but, uh, because it's, it's irrelevant, you know, we're, we're going to talk things about movement and feet and building your foundation and doing different things, which are super important.

[00:32:57] And. But the reason that people seek [00:33:00] out the information on a podcast, reason, people seek out things is because what they really want. They want to feel strong and they want to feel confident. They don't want to feel like they're on an Island. They want to feel like they have purpose. And whether you're dealing with pain or an injury, whether you're not as fit as you want to be not looking as good, it's like.

[00:33:17] All these things you're talking about are the foundation that allow you to build confidence. And I think you and I would both agree movements and incredible way to help build more of that confidence and build that. And, uh, I mean, how, how are you bringing this up with people you're working with now in terms of, because there's people hopefully can see there's so many underlying things, all this, an injury, a pain, a lack of confidence.

[00:33:40] This is just layers and layers. Are you directly addressing this? Do you have a process for doing that or, or what, uh, how are you kind of shedding light on this for people and, and using movement as a way to, to kind of step into that, that, uh, underlying all the psychological, emotional side of everything too.

[00:33:58] Yeah.

[00:33:59] Matt: [00:33:59] Oh, [00:34:00] yeah. Um, yes. So I do have my own, my own process. My process of movement discovery, I call it. So I generally have a name for it now. Uh, but it's something that I've been doing for year. Just never put it into any structure, I guess, so to speak, but it's, it's what I. I teach in the mentorship programs that I offer and everything like that, too.

[00:34:18] It all boils down to communication. Like what we're doing right now, we're having a conversation Dave. This is how we could dispel information, but it's also how we develop trust, rapport, and connection with each other. Like it's, uh, it, it, I think we take it for granted. Like the communication side of things is a very, very integral piece and we take it for granted because we think that because we're talking every day, conversing people that we're communicating, but we're not communicating.

[00:34:40] Effectively, right. Because many of us and myself included, I was right there a while back to our terrible listeners. Like we want to just be able to speak our own mind, our own opinions and not actually listen to what other people are telling us and be able to reframe that and reflect that back to them and in doing so.

[00:34:57] That's how, yeah. We start to develop [00:35:00] trust. So I, I, would I talk about when I'm working with clients or helping other practitioners or coaches developed a skill, is I talk about developing a container, right? And this container is the safe space that you are holding for that person that you're working with or in communication with, or try to help move better or move through that pain experience.

[00:35:19] And the container is built by a couple of different. Pillars to it. So you can think about it anyway, anyway, one at the glass container, a box, whatever. Um, but the foundation is being a good listener through questions like through asking very open-ended detailed questions that allow that individual tell their story.

[00:35:38] Right. And then the other piece of that could put component is through being very present. And that is, um, people are. People know you're being present with them when you're capable of reframing, what is it? They just told you and putting it into another question. So you should always feel like you are the question asker to allow people to talk more people want to feel [00:36:00] heard.

[00:36:00] They want to feel seen. And then the last one in that is through the actual listening component of it. And through all three of those pillars, we developed this container and the lid to that container is opened with trust. So once you start developing, um, you know, the, the report them and connecting with them and diving deeper into their history and diving deeper into their story.

[00:36:24] So to speak, like we're all storytellers, right? Like that's all we want to do is tell stories and how we communicate knowledge and information. Um, that's how we communicate emotion as well. It's a super valuable, uh, once you able to develop trust you then open up that container, which is exactly where all the physical, the emotional, the psychological transformation occurs.

[00:36:40] So that's the foundation of it all. Right. That's where it is all completely laid out and built because I could develop the most robust, efficient, effective program for them. I could pick apart their movement. I could tell them everything that they're doing wrong, getting the exact plan that they need to fix their shit.

[00:36:59] But if they don't trust, [00:37:00] I'm not going to be useful for them. They never going to do any of it. Right. At the end of the day. Like I. It tell us my clients all the time. Like, I'm not going to fix you. You're going to fix yourself, but they don't trust me to guide them along the way. Then I'm going to take the action necessary to do so.

[00:37:14] So you need to be able to build that foundation first. And then you can start to talk about the differences with the pain sciences and going into all the movement stuff and start to develop a good strength program on top of that. And they're going to be bought in. They're gonna be bought in because you took the time in the beginning to actually listen to them and connect with them.

[00:37:32] I see people on a 90 minute basis, that's a minimum, mostly people on. And the first 45 minutes of that is just talking. Like, we literally sit here and have a powwow and get to know each other. It's like being out in a bar, having a drink. And that's what it should feel like. Okay.

[00:37:46] Dave: [00:37:46] I think it's so important. And for anyone looking for add. Any kind of healing practitioners or shrink coach or anyone that they're looking for. I think that's, you know, gotta be a piece of it. If you're just going and following a generic online program, you've you find, or even a [00:38:00] specific one that someone makes for you based on, you know, a G a general movement assessment or something without really getting to know what makes you tick and your goals and all those things is going to, you're going to always fall short.

[00:38:10] And if you find yourself bouncing around from program to program and thing to thing that might be the thing that's missing is someone who's actually. Hearing you and knowing what you need and what your goals are and why they're important. And being able to tap into that a little bit is such a, such a missing piece.

[00:38:24] I think for coaches.

[00:38:26] Matt: [00:38:26] totally, totally. It's like the shiny new object syndrome, right? Like, Oh, this looks great. It's like a squirrel, a dog chasing a squirrel. They jumped from program to program to program. I never see any results. They never put the amount of energy and effort necessary to see any success in that program.

[00:38:42] Dave: [00:38:42] Yeah. Yeah. And it's, uh, you know, we, we see that all the time, but I wanted to. You know, one thing I do want to get on, on the foundation side of things, you mentioned the word foundation a few times and you mentioned, you know, there's a foundation on the confidence side of things from the, you know, having, having confidence in [00:39:00] yourself and then movement confidence as well.

[00:39:01] And I know you kind of compare, you know, feet as the foundation, and then also the foundation of confidence as, uh, you know, the way where we're carrying ourselves. And do you, uh, how are you. You know, for those that don't know the importance of the feet. Cause I do want to get into this. Like where are you starting people on this and how has that, how has that their foundation?

[00:39:20] Because a lot of people say your core is your foundation or, you know, lats, lats can be, you know, people throw these big muscle groups around glutes and these things, but why do you start with, why do you start with the feet for people? And how does that even look?

[00:39:31] Matt: [00:39:31] Oh, damn. We couldn't get through the entire conversation without having a conversation about being good wig.

[00:39:36] Dave: [00:39:36] It's your, it's your thing, man?

[00:39:38] Matt: [00:39:38] Uh, I, I know I try so hard. Um, yeah, so the, the feet for me is, is based off of my own kind of personal history with things. Um, so I mentioned that I was a baseball player for a long time.

[00:39:48] I was playing sports from the age of four. Um, my dad threw me in the T-ball and soccer at that age. So I was in cleats, the majority of my adolescents, you know, very important developmental timestamp in a, in a [00:40:00] young athlete's life. And. What ended up happening is I started to develop these duck feet. So I ran around and walked like a duck.

[00:40:07] I essentially flippers, I didn't have feet. Like if you looked at somebody like, Oh, they got flat feet. I was that guy, like I'm talking like full on collapse and those things, it didn't help. I was actually born with something called tibial torsion on my right side. So that also contributed to it. And it's like, you know, pros and cons of growing up in Backwoods, Pennsylvania.

[00:40:26] Doc's told my parents I would grow out of it. And it's like, yeah, well maybe we actually did anything about it. Yeah. Beginning he might've grown out of it, but you just kind of let it go. So now that's kind of like a permanent thing. So if you ever like, watch me move, I do have like a slight rotation in my right leg.

[00:40:40] So it's just an interesting little nuance about me. But, um, it was because of that, that I ended up finding out where there was the root cause of all of my pain issues. Right? Moving on up the chain. Uh, when I got to PT school and started putting the dots, connecting the dots and put the pieces together, I realized the foot was kind of like any other part of the human body.

[00:40:57] Just like your biceps. You can make it stronger. [00:41:00] Um, and I started to essentially wee, myself, out of the, you know, big cushy shoes and custom orthotics parents, God bless them. They were doing what they thought was best for me. And they put me in all of the big cushiony shoes and orthotics that money could buy, um, which would help temporarily.

[00:41:14] But as we know, then it was just bad band-aid and things kept getting worse. I started experiencing more and more plantar fasciitis, Achilles issues, knee issues, hip issues, low back problems like recurring flare ups. Um, Three or four times a year. And there was no amount of like mobilizing the shit out of my hips or deadlifting that was going to take that away.

[00:41:35] Cause it never fixed the foundation of which I was standing on my feet and I was essentially, um, dead lifting and moving around in platform shoes. Essentially what it was. And my feet had no function. They were functioning like pegs. And when I started to put things together at PT school, I decided that I was going to take the time necessary to fix my feet and over a three-year time span and went from a size 12 and a half to a size 10 and a half shoe.

[00:42:00] [00:42:00] So I essentially took my duck flippers and turned them into a normal semblance of what a foot should look and function like. Now, granted, the architecture is still a bit lower than most. My feet are very responsive in nature and they work very, very well now. So that's kind of where the whole entire, I guess, love for working with the feet started was actually fixing my own and it is the very first assessment that I do on everybody. It doesn't matter if you're coming to me with a knee issue or a shoulder problem. We always start and look at the feet because it is the beginning of the kinetic chain. It literally  transmits every single piece of information and movement potential up the rest of the body.

[00:42:41] It literally tells our brain how we need to navigate our environment, whether that be in the weight room. Or out in the field, we need to know what's going on in the feet. Um, and I always use John Wellbore and the power athletes definition of athleticism to explain this is that we need to be able to combine primal movement patterns through space, to [00:43:00] accomplish a known or novel task that is athleticism.

[00:43:03] We need to be able to accomplish these known all the tasks seamlessly and effortlessly. That's like watching the NFL wide receiver run down the sideline while standing off defenders and turning his head to catch a ball seven yards down the field. That's athletic. Like he wasn't thinking about that shit.

[00:43:17] His brain knew exactly how it needed to react, right? So that seamless and effortless movement is, and combine those primal moving patterns through space is your proprioception and kinesthetic awareness. You develop your sense of balance and where your body's at in space by developing the foot and the proprioceptive capability of the feet, strengthen the foot and whence once that foot can actually transmit better information to the brain, that's how you improve your movement.

[00:43:41] Patterns become more athletic. And that's good. What gives the brain the sense of control back over your body?

[00:43:48] Dave: [00:43:48] Yeah, it's, it's, uh, it's foreign to a lot of people, but it's so applicable. And while I know you would argue that everyone needs to work on their feet, you know, who are the, who are the ones, especially that should be [00:44:00] any, you mentioned so flat feet. Are there, uh, any other things you would highlight in terms of people that should be like, Hey, maybe I should consider this

[00:44:07] Matt: [00:44:07] I would literally say everybody because. You know, people look at the feet and they think that the high arch is like the gold standard, not the case. Like just because we have a high arch and your foot actually functions well, like you still need to become a mobile adapter at some point, your foot still needs to go to flattened into pronation, like prone Asia.

[00:44:24] It's not the fucking boogeyman. It's not going to come get you in the middle of the night. It's not the source of all your injuries. Um, just as much as a high arch, isn't the gold standard, right? Having a high arch too rigid and super like stuck in its ways. And you cannot reduce forces. When does most injury occur? When you reducing so when you're slowing down at the end range of motion, right? So if you can't do that, he can't attenuate forces. The forces are going to bleed somewhere and hence there comes a torn meniscus, you know, an ACL or a hamstring strain, or even a low back problem. And you actually see this a lot [00:45:00] in high level athletics.

[00:45:01] Um, And this is like, you know, one of the lessons that I learned, you know, going back to full circle of like all my different seasons in life, uh, going through like the whole bodybuilding powerlifting CrossFit side of things is I was able to develop a really big fucking engine, like a giant engine. I essentially had a Ferrari.

[00:45:19] Inside my hips and pelvis. Um, that's not joke, but essentially I was, yeah, it was pretty good. I was pretty athletic. I was strong. I was powerful. Um, I could've taken that. We'll keep it PG. Uh, so I, I developed a Ferrari engine inside my, my chassis, my hips and my pelvis and my trunk, but I had Pintos his feet. All right. So they became the weak link in the chain, and I wasn't able to transmit the ground, the reaction forces effectively and efficiently through the rest of my body. And that's when I started to develop a lot more of these, you know, these issues in the knee and the hip and the low back, um, because that forces going elsewhere and we see this a lot in the high level athletics, especially like it was highly evident this year with the NFL, because of all the, um, you know, the [00:46:00] lockdowns not being able to practice as much.

[00:46:02] I can't tell you. I think 90% of the injuries that we saw up two weeks, week three were high ankle sprains. ACL's hamstring, trains and groin issues. Guess what I saw coming from the feet, we essentially have had the like immobile feet locked into a tight athletic shoe that not to mention was athletically taped around there to limit more motion.

[00:46:26] And then we limited even more motion by taping over the shoe and around the ankle. We got these very, very Ferrari, like engines running around on Pinto feet again. Uh, so if anything is kind of skewed or that force needs to go somewhere, like listen force can neither be created nor destroyed. We know this it's a lot of physics.

[00:46:46] It's got to go somewhere. So if you can attenuate it through the feet, it's going to go up into that. Syndesmosis joint in between the ankle. There's your high ankle sprain. It's going to bleed out into the knee. There's the ACL tear and go up into the hip. There's a groin injury. It's going to happen somewhere. [00:47:00] Sorry. I don't know if I kind of went off track from

[00:47:02] Dave: [00:47:02] No, that was, that was perfect. Cause I figured, you'd say every figure, say everyone, but that was an even better answer too, in terms of kind of piecing that all together, how that looks. And I know for some people that say no, is it as simple as training barefoot? Like is that is just being barefoot more the, the only way to do it, or is there a more specific approach, I guess for people starting out.

[00:47:22] Matt: [00:47:22] Yeah. Um, as much as I was, I would love to say that just going barefoot is the answer. It's it's good to go get you a good start. It definitely will. Uh, but you also have to be able to teach your feet to adapt to the environment. So the foot has 26 bones, 33 joints in it, things like somewhere around 107 ligaments.

[00:47:42] Um, so there's a lot going on down there. A lot of like structures, uh, holding everything together. Um, it's a very dynamic structure inside the body, like Divinci said it was a work of art and that's going back. I don't know art history, but way, way back, or even he noticed that, um, and with 33 joints, [00:48:00] each for that 66 total, your spine also has 33 joints, but we got two feet.

[00:48:04] I won't say the feet is actually more important than your spine and what's going on there and actually directs what's going on at the spine. Um, but those joints each have three degrees of freedom to them. So I'm gonna let you do the math on it. They teach us how to do math and Duke. Uh, so I'm gonna let you guys figure that one out, but there's a lot of degrees of freedom at the foot.

[00:48:19] So we always talk about the human body being on the move in three different planes of motion. Well, the foot can also move in three different planes of motion through those 33 different joints. There's a lot going on there and where you need to start training your foot can be barefoot.

[00:48:32] I think it's a great place, but the degree of where you need to go with it, it's going to be dependent on so many different variables of, um, you know, where you in cleats your entire life. Like I was. Are you used to wearing Hoka shoes? I mean, here's the big problem, Dave is that we've essentially made ourselves very, very pressured void in life.

[00:48:49] I think about this for a hot second. Okay. We have a pillow for a head and we sleep at night. We got a cushion for our ass and we're sitting down and we got giant cushiony shoes. We'd walk around in all day. Okay. Now [00:49:00] what do we do? We do when we're in pain, we hire people to put pressure back into the freaking system.

[00:49:05] Once again, am I crazy? Am I on an Island? We hired masseuses. We hired lacrosse. We put lacrosse balls at the bottom of our foot. You know what I mean? Roll around on the saw or a foam rollers, all add pressure back. This isn't a little, what if we just add a pressure into the system from the get, go and tie our feet actually how to use it appropriately?

[00:49:20] I think we had solved a lot, a lot of problems. But essentially when it comes to the injuries, it's not just about going barefoot. You also have to be able to transmit forces and that becomes a vibration problem. So our feet to the bottom of our feet have a sensory receptors called mechanoreceptors and proprioceptive receptors that are found nowhere else in the body but on the bottom of the feet and the hands.

[00:49:43] And since I would call glabrous skin, it's hairless skin and 70% of these mechanoreceptors are what we call fast adapting. So the fast acting mechanorecptors that detect high vibrational forces like walking, running, jumping those types of things versus the slow adpating ones where [00:50:00] it's like, I'm standing still right now, talking to you.

[00:50:02] Those little receptors are kind of keeping me upright and balanced, postural sway, two point discrimination, that type of stuff. So a lot of Achilles issues, a lot of plantar fasciitis problems, a lot of knee problems are, are, are all related to the inability of the receptors to actually work appropriately because we only ever.

[00:50:20] Adapt those receptors to the cushion shoe and never to any other type of environment. So different things, things like carpet, hardwood, tile, concrete, grass, gravel, all send different vibratory, sensory information up to the brain and tells it what to do differently. So it's important to be able to stimulate the bottom of your feet as many different environments as possible, but then also to be able to learn how to move the joints through those three different planes of motion in a variety of different patterns.

[00:50:49] As possible. This is why training barefoot is so important. And there are ways that you can start to do that through different, you know, various exercises and movements that I have people do on [00:51:00] a regular basis and start to one, knock that rust off, but then to teach the foot to be stronger and more mobile and transmit forces better.

[00:51:07] You know, I joke all the times kind of erotic. I spent the majority of my young life trying to get bigger, faster, stronger to impress roles, um, and become more muscular and more aesthetically pleasing. Uh, but I've never been happier until the day that I got compliments and how muscular and vainy my feet look.

[00:51:23] And I was like, finally made a guys. We did it.

[00:51:27] Dave: [00:51:27] Full circle, full circle back into it. Uh, one, one more question on the feet is selfish question I have, because I grew up cleats too, in my I'm super bow legged. My ankle joints don't move. My feet were flat. I also lost the size and a half on my, on my shoe once I started building the things back up. 

[00:51:44] Matt: [00:51:44] kudos, baby. Yeah. 

[00:51:46] Dave: [00:51:46] I worked at it man. It was a few years to, to. Solid work at it, but for those with ankle mobility limitations. So I think ankle mobility is such a big for those that are, you know, kind of proactive on things. People are like, I want to squat better just, Oh, mob your ankles, mob your ankles, and you know, ankles, hips.

[00:52:00] [00:52:00] How does the, how does the feet tie into that? Is it, do you address the feet first to improve ankle mobility or do you need to improve ankle? Cause a lot of people will say, well, until you improve your ankle mobility, you can't really fix your feet because they're going to have to compensate. Where's where's your stance on that?

[00:52:15] Matt: [00:52:15] Oh, I call bullshit on that. Number one. Um, so two things, number one, uh, I consider myself a recovering mob tard. Um, there's another PT of mine. Uh, Nick Kyle out of West Virginia. He and I are good friends. And, um, he kind of, he coined that term. So Nick, if you're listening, I'm stealing it from you right now.

[00:52:36] Um, but essentially I was one of those guys who would try to mobilize the shit out of everything. Right until you start to look at how the nervous system really works and the mobilization isn't actually doing what we think it's doing. Like you're not actually moving the joints. You're is adding a lot of deep pressure.

[00:52:52] That's stimulating like the GTOs and the muscle spits and goals. Um, inside the joint, inside the muscle [00:53:00] musculotendinous units that make you feel like you have more range, but when it comes to joints in the foot and ankle included, it's a neurological problem. So if the brain feels like it can't control the range of motion through a joint, what's it going to do? It's going to lock it up. It's going to give you these sensations of tightness and immobility in an effort to protect you, you know, whether right or wrong. And it feels like you are going to potentially hurt yourself as a defense mechanism. It won't let you go there.

[00:53:26] Right. So the ankles included, like if you feel like you can't get enough ankle dorsiflexion range of motion to squat well, you have to start teaching your feet. How to control that range of motion, meaning you need to be able to train barefoot so that you can stimulate those. Receptors. So you can get the muscles to function the way they need to, as they can, you can actually move through these different ranges and guess what?

[00:53:47] Then the ankle will start to open up. Cause your brain feels like it actually has control of it again, if you don't ever do that, you're going to be fighting this battle, man. I did it for four years, four years. I did [00:54:00] all, all of the loaded mobility drills out there. I'm talking 45 minutes to an hour a day and got nowhere.

[00:54:06] No, where it's a temporary, you know, maybe a little bit of perceived increased range of motion. That allowed me to feel like I was working out better or more efficiently, but it never stuck. And it wasn't until I started training barefoot and teaching the joints to go through their fullest range of emotion and make my brain feel comfortable and okay with doing it, excuse me, that I started to open it up and this stuff started to last.

[00:54:29] For good and to stay around for. Good. Um, so, so that's the key, like, you know, we, we talk all the, all the time about compensation patterns and yes, that stuff is important, but you have to get to the root cause of why the compensation patterns are, you know, developing in the first place. And when it comes to foot and ankle, you, you have to, you have to stimulate those areas.

[00:54:48] You have to be okay with kind of messing up a little bit here and there. Cause it's how your brain learns, right? That's how you can learn from mistakes and be able to adapt and grow and evolve.

[00:54:59] Dave: [00:54:59] Yeah, [00:55:00] that's good. I'm glad you hit on the mobility side of it because it is so people just think like, Oh, something feels stiff. So I'm just going to start hammering it with a band and lacrosse ball and foam roller, and just smash it and do everything they can to try and help it improve. But as you and I have both seen that's that's short term, very short lived stuff, if even much improvement, very temporary, but they're not even following it up with doing the right things to strengthen the right areas and give that sensory feedback.

[00:55:24]Matt: [00:55:24] It's essentially, it's the difference between intention and impact. Like I think people who are doing that continue to do it. You've got great intentions. Like you understand there's a problem and you're trying to change it. But the impact that you're having is not exactly what you think that is occurring.

[00:55:39] It's the same thing. When I get people that come in. And they're like, well I do squats and deadlifts and then do step ups and lunches. And it's like, okay, well, how are you doing them? It goes back to the whole entire, um, John Wooden quote, which I absolutely love. So John Wooden have nobody knows he was the winningest, most basketball coach in history.

[00:55:55] Um, UCLA passed away a number of years ago now, but he has my favorite quote of all time. And [00:56:00] it's don't mistake activity. So just because you're doing something doesn't mean you're actually accomplishing anything. Right. You may be having these great intentions of, you know, improving your ankle mobility.

[00:56:12] But if you don't have the right impact, you're never going to make the change that you want.

[00:56:18] Dave: [00:56:18] that's so good. I love that John wooden quote and D uh, intention over impact too, is so good too, because most people do have good intentions. They're trying to improve. They're just running into the wall, banging their head in the wall, trying to do the same things that aren't working versus they could put less, they could spend less time getting more results.

[00:56:35] If they're, if they're willing to do that in a smart way.

[00:56:38] Matt: [00:56:38] just like finding the right guide, but you know, banging your head against the wall, the definition of insanity, not doing the same thing over and over and over again, expecting a different result. It's not going to get you anywhere.

[00:56:47] Dave: [00:56:47] Yeah. Now that's also good, Matt. I appreciate all this. I've got a couple of questions coming your way to wrap up here, but, um, I'm so glad that the way that conversation went, we were both, like, we're just gonna hit record and see what happens, but, uh, it's been, it's been [00:57:00] a blast and, uh, you know, a couple of, couple of questions that ask all the guests, as we wrap up here is, is one.

[00:57:05] And I already appreciate your vulnerability on, you know, some of your past and where you've kind of. Yup. Struggled. And where do you see as the turnaround? Because I think a lot of people listening it's they hear someone well-spoken, they hear someone that's doing all these things and it's easier from the outside to look and be like, man, this guy has got it all together.

[00:57:22] He's confident and he's happy he's doing all these things. He's successful. He's got multiple businesses, he's teaching other coaches now. And, uh, that, you know, that can be a dangerous place for guys listening. Cause it, it creates this again. They, they get this imposter syndrome then of like, well, I'm not, I'm not there.

[00:57:36] He's, you know, he's doing this, he's doing that. And uh, You know, I think you and I would both be the first to admit that that's definitely not the case, but what's, uh, you know, for, for those listening, if you can be vulnerable in a challenge you're currently facing, I know you've mentioned some of the past things, but is there anything you're going through now that's growing you, that's challenging you, something you're struggling with, that you're working through that you believe is, uh, you know, being a catalyst for your growth as a man.

[00:58:00] [00:57:59] Matt: [00:57:59] Yeah, I think you, you, you nailed it right in the head. Like that's such an important and valuable piece of information that people need to hear more often is that we are all are not perfect. Like it may look like that on the exterior, but you never know what's going on inside somebody. And you know, for me, um, I definitely am a confident individual, uh, and that definitely portrays on the outside, but it's not always the thoughts that are going on inside my head.

[00:58:28] You know, people think that when, and you become a PT with the Olympics, like you've reached this pinnacle, or if you're doing all these businesses and your reached, you made this amount of money. You've reached this. This end point, but it was never an endpoint. And guess what I am he going to be the first one to tell you that even with the success that I've had, there are still days that I have thoughts of not being good enough seriously.

[00:58:48] And it happens more often than you think. But it, it comes down to, okay, well, how are you going to respond to those thoughts versus how you're going to react to them? Um, that matters. So [00:59:00] like one of the biggest things that I'm working on now, I told you a bunch of stories today, but one of the biggest things, I actually hired a communications coach, um, because I want to become more confident in my story.

[00:59:11] Right. It's an ever evolving, um, I think concept and I think that's something that a lot of people can relate to and can develop is being confident in who they are, their past, the things they've been through and the way they think. Plain and simple, like one of the biggest things for me was letting go of listening to my brain all too often.

[00:59:31] Like I think as PTs, we get into this mindset, we're very logical, rational thinkers. Um, but taking the time to actually listen to your heart into your gut, I think are far more important and far more valuable and far more relatable. As well. So it does help you build that connection that we, that we touched on on earlier.

[00:59:48] So it is an ever evolving process and, you know, we all struggle at some point with it and that's okay. That's something that I'm currently currently working on with the help of others. And I think that [01:00:00] is another very important piece of value that needs to come out there is like ask for fucking help.

[01:00:06] It's okay. To ask for help. That is the biggest thing that I had to do in 2020 at the beginning of this, um, was actually let go of my ego. And be able to ask for help and be open to it. Right. Cause you can't do it all on your own. You have to let go of control sometimes and it's okay to do that. It really is.

[01:00:24] Uh, and then once you can be okay with that, guess what the weight on your shoulders gets lifted and you get this giant relief that you actually are supported by others around you. And we do all have each other's best interests in heart.

[01:00:36] Dave: [01:00:36] and it's so powerful. I appreciate sharing that. Being vulnerable with that. Cause I think I've said guys, guys wait guys in general girls as well, but guys, especially wait for. It's like, well, they see that. And it's like, why I'm not in this situation to do that. Or I'll, I'll wait till I'm confident. I'll wait till I get that much money and then I'll be, then I'll start being confident.

[01:00:52] It just, it it's a dangerous place to be and it doesn't, it doesn't happen.

[01:00:57] Matt: [01:00:57] Take massive action now. [01:01:00] Take massive action. Now that's what we need to be doing. Uh, there there's no time better than the very present moment to make a fucking decision, especially from a masculinity standpoint, like teaser for you guys out there, women appreciate that. That's what makes you a man be decisive.

[01:01:16] Take action.

[01:01:18] Dave: [01:01:18] Yeah, so good man. And, uh, last hypothetical question for all the guests here is, uh, so you're, you're in town. You're leaving your favorite coffee shop. You're, uh, bumping your younger self. So younger Matt, 10 years back. And I Neva we've already heard the story of, of Matt 10 years ago to some degree, but you're on your way to a, you know, busy day with clients.

[01:01:39] Can't miss it. You got 60 seconds to talk with him. He's asking for some life advice, looking for some guidance. What are you saying to him?

[01:01:47] Matt: [01:01:47] You know, one of the things that I wish I did in my younger years was actually learn less and act more in that kind of. That kind of falls along with what we just talked about taking massive action. [01:02:00] Um, because you know, as students and as continual learners, we, I think fall into a trap of continually burying her head in a book, or you're looking on Instagram and trying to learn the next best thing, but then we didn't, once again, we never apply it.

[01:02:13] Right. We never take action on it. Uh, so I really, really wish that I would have told myself back then to just okay. Use what you've got now and go experience it more. Like work with more people communicate with more people. Don't spend so many nights. You know, staying up till nine, 10 o'clock at night studying.

[01:02:31] And essentially I was anti-social for a lot of it. Uh, just because I was the guy that wanted to get all the straight A's on the tests and I was capable of doing it. Um, but then, you know, you put me in a situation, I couldn't really act on it very well until I got to PT school and realized that, Oh yeah, we need to communicate with people that that's where all the magic happens.

[01:02:53] Um, so yeah, so do more, learn less.

[01:02:56] Dave: [01:02:56] I love it. And you end up, I think you ended up figuring a lot of that out on your own though, [01:03:00] because you're, uh, you're making a big impact out there and you're, you're coaching people. You're helping the people, you know, directly as well as helping other coaches do that as well. So where can people find you?

[01:03:09] I know you have a lot of remote and online things going on now, too. Both for people looking to improve fitness, improve their health, improve their movement, and also for the coaches out there. So you want to give a little background on where you're at.

[01:03:20] Matt: [01:03:20] Yeah. Sure. So you want to learn a little bit more about my philosophy of things. I've wrote a bunch of articles, um, over at Uh, so that's where I housed a lot of my articles on there on various concepts, from everything that the fee to the pain sciences and communication, and, you know, working with athletes.

[01:03:39] Uh, but then my website is and. Movement is an acronym. It's actually it's capital, M V M N T. It stands for movement, vitality, mindset, nutrition, and training. Um, and then my Instagram handle is at @rootedinmvmnt, the same, uh, acronym. And that's where I respond a lot more, you know, I guess, [01:04:00] uh, frequently than, um, through the website through email.

[01:04:03] So if you really want to have a conversation, I'm more than open to having. Gushing on that platform. But yeah, I do offer a lot of remote training, remote assessments and evaluations, and, um, long-term program for people who really do want to work through a pain experience or improve their performance.

[01:04:19] And most importantly, improve, improve and reattain confidence in their bodies.

[01:04:24] Dave: [01:04:24] yup. I highly recommend engaging with him. Uh, I love your love, your Instagram handle and the profile and, uh, your, your content is always great. So definitely go check them out. We'll link all those up in the, in the show notes as well. Matt, it's been a blast, man. I appreciate you taking time out of your day and for sharing all this with, with everyone listening.

[01:04:40] So thanks for coming on today.

[01:04:41] Matt: [01:04:41] Yeah, thank you so much. This has been wonderful. We got to do it again soon for sure.

[01:04:45] Dave: [01:04:45] Yeah, we will. I, man, I appreciate it. And we'll talk soon.


[01:04:49] Thanks so much for listening to today's episode of the Men Made For More podcast, hope you found today's show valuable, and you have some actionable strategies you can apply to your life [01:05:00] today. This is your first time listening. Thanks for being here. The aim of this podcast is to provide a ton of the best possible content to help you grow in your journey, to becoming the best version of yourself.

[01:05:11] You enjoyed the podcast and found it helpful. Please make sure to subscribe to the podcast and leave a five star review. The subscriptions and reviews, help other like-minded men discover the podcast and take the next step in strengthening their body, their mind, and their purpose. You're a regular listener.

[01:05:26] I can't thank you enough for investing in yourself in the show. Please make sure to share this with a friend or post on social media and tag me with your favorite part from today's show. If you haven't already make sure to join the men made for more Facebook group to be a part of a community of like-minded men that are elevating their game and living for more by searching men made for more on Facebook.

[01:05:46] Keep challenging yourself growing and know that it's okay to get out of your comfort zone and know that you're made for more. Thanks for listening and see you guys soon.

Listen to this episode on your favorite podcast app click HERE 

If you haven’t yet, make sure to join like minded men in the our Men Made For More Facebook Group - designed to offer Performance Coaching to Help Men Get Strong, Feel Confident, and Level Up Their Life. 

Interested in working with a coach to help you live a strong, confident, and high performing life? Let's talk, fill out an application below and set up a free strategy session to learn more

Talk to a High Performance Coach

Level up and get connected!

Join other like minded men on our weekly mailing list receiving the latest content and deals before anyone else.

We hate SPAM. We will never sell your information, for any reason.