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Men Made For More Podcast Episode 164: Power of Community and Myth of The Self-Made Man with Kyle Shrum

guestepisode Aug 26, 2021

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As men, any resistance around strong relationships with other men can limit our ability to reach our highest potential - whether that’s spiritually, physically, mentally, financially, or in business. Learn the importance of having a strong, local community around you in your life for experiencing growth, and the types of relationships you need to make sure you’re fostering to increase your fulfillment as you become the man you’re capable of being.

If you find yourself struggling with finding a community, or this episode resonated, text me the word ‘community’ to (760) 477-4361.

Men Made For More Podcast Episode 164: Power of Community and Myth of The Self-Made Man with Kyle Shrum

[00:00:00] Dave: Hey there mighty men. I'm your host, Dr. Dave Paczkowski founder of man-made for more coaching, our business helps husbands love up there. Their leadership and their legacy in marriage and in business. The purpose of this podcast is to bring together like-minded men that feel destined for big things in their life and provide you the resources and community that you need to lead yourself, your family and your business.

[00:00:26] If you've ever felt overwhelmed, frustrated, lost quite alone on your journey to a better and more purposeful life. You're in the right. You weren't designed to be average. So it's time to quit living that way today. I'm giving you permission to unlock your true potential and step into all that you were made for. All right guys. Welcome back to the Men Made For More podcast joined, uh, again with a good friend of mine. Uh, someone who's has become a good friend of mine through conversations like this. Kyle Shrum Kyle, and this is your third time on here now. So we'll link up the first two episodes [00:01:00] are definitely worth listening to if you guys haven't caught them, but Kyle, thanks for coming back on here today.

[00:01:05] And for joining us today.

[00:01:06] Kyle: Yeah, absolutely. Man. I don't know, I feel like I just need to be a permanent staple. You know what I mean?

[00:01:13] Dave: Yeah, well, 

[00:01:14] Kyle: permanent member. 

[00:01:15] Dave: I don't remember w you're working, you're working that way. We'll uh, we'll, we'll see, as you keep working up the ranks there, but I'm, uh, I'm excited for this one. Yeah. We, uh, we knew we wanted to get on, uh, get on a podcast for this, but we're talking a couple of different directions to go. And, uh, as usual we pretty much recorded a podcast without actually hitting record on it before.

[00:01:35] Before we actually hit record, but I want to talk today about the power of community, especially in, for men specifically. And, uh, the power of, of close relationships, people who are involved in your life, people who know what's going on, people that can support you through the highs and lows. And I think so many men are, are lacking in that.

[00:01:53] And some people are. You know, either, either not have community at all, or they have more surface level relationships, [00:02:00] especially with, with other men. So I'd love to, uh, maybe, maybe if we just start getting this conversation rolling with, uh, what are, what'd you say some of the dangers are for may, if we kind of set the context, what are the dangers of, you know, there's a lot out there of like self-made man.

[00:02:13] You know, you just have to be, you're identified by your work. And especially for business owners listening, it's like head down and we just go, go, go. And sometimes our relationships are not a priority. It's like, well, I'm, I'm trying to make money and provide for my family. And in my free time, I'm with my family.

[00:02:26] And those might be, that might be all the relationships some people have. But what are the dangers about not letting other men into your, in your life, not having that close community of men around you?

[00:02:36] Kyle: Well, first of all, I would say, and I understand, like I understand the. The point behind the phrase like self-made man, Right.

[00:02:46] Um, I get, I get where people are coming from, what that, you know what I mean? But to me, like there's no such thing, you know what I mean? To me, there's no such thing as a self-made man.

[00:02:54] There's no, there's no man out there that no matter what it is that he accomplished, uh there's no man out there who [00:03:00] did it by himself, like it's, it's this impossible. You can't do it. Um, I mean, there's, there's one way to be a self-made man, I guess. And that's to move out to the wilds of Alaska and literally live off the land and never speak to another human being.

[00:03:16] Um, but I would say even then you had to grow up to a point where you could go survive on your own. You know what I mean? So somebody had to teach you how to do that. So still, uh, you're not, there's no such thing as a self-made man, and I think it's a myth, you know? And, um, and so with that in mind, this, this idea of.

[00:03:33] Putting your head down and barreling through things and, and, um, Just shirking all responsibility or all other forms of relationships or communication or anything like that. It's just illogical because you're blinding yourself to what's really there, in my opinion, to me, there's there's those relationships exist, whether you acknowledge them.

[00:03:55] You know what I mean? And I think, that you, you fail to acknowledge them at your own detriment. You know what I mean? [00:04:00] We all, there's nobody that does anything by themselves and that's, uh, we're, we're communal beings. That's how we were mate. We were created that way to, uh, to seek that community no matter what it is that we were doing.

[00:04:12] So, um, this whole self-made man thing is just kind of, you're not doing it by yourself. You know what I, mean? Um, even building a business. It has to be you and at least one other person, because you got to sell whatever you're doing to somebody. You know what I mean? Like you have to sell your product, you have to sell your service to at least one other person, or you don't have a business.

[00:04:32] You know what I mean? So to me, it's, it's kind of this myth of, well, I can just do more work. I can just do more and I can just, you know, this, this doesn't have to be important to me cause I don't need it. Well, No, you know, I think, I think there's a, uh, a pile of bodies, you know through the, through the business history of, of people who tried to do that and prove that that's not, that's not how it works.

[00:04:55] Dave: I think, uh, I, I know, I know people can, okay. I relate to this because it was, [00:05:00] you know, just probably over the past really the past year or so is really when I, I started letting more relationships into my life too. And it wasn't that I didn't even, I would say I value them, but it was, there was, we were, we were starting a business.

[00:05:15] We were in a, in a new area and we were, you know, we had relationships that, you know, in terms of friendships, but in terms of actually like letting guys into too. You know, how, how I'm actually doing and like letting people support me. That's always, I think it can be like a protective thing of saying, saying we don't need help, but what would you say?

[00:05:33] You know, and I, I might have some things to, to speak on to follow it up, but like, from your opinion, what, uh, like what are some barriers that keep people from from doing that? Because, you know, for, for me it was, I mean, there's probably some, some fear or some lack of knowing how to be vulnerable, a little bit of like protection of not wanting to.

[00:05:49] You're not wanting to really let people in and, and see, see me for who I am and just like the image of me versus actually letting, letting people in is that that can be scary and [00:06:00] vulnerable. But what things have you seen from barriers that maybe keep guys from being able to seek community that, that truly like knows and loves them for who they are?

[00:06:09] Okay.

[00:06:09] Kyle: I don't think, I think exactly what you're talking about. Vulnerability. I think that's a, that's a big issue, especially for guys. Um, you know, that that word is, is something, you know, there's. Walls. They go, there's instant dependent. You know, you talk about engaging defenses, like, boom, you throw that word out there.

[00:06:26] And like men just like ready to go. You know what I mean? Let's this is, this is an attack, you know what I mean? Of some sort, you know what I mean? That's on some level, that's what it is. And, and so I just think, I think that is, uh, is a big part of it and of, of kind of that self-made man mentality that you, that you know, that you already to it's, it's almost like. I'm going to be judged by my accomplishments. So I'm the one that needs to go do it. And. but the great men that we think about, you know, those, those great, [00:07:00] those high achievers that we think about every single one of them had people around them. You know what I mean? Like, um, you know, athletes have coaches, you know what I mean?

[00:07:08] And if you ask any, any. You know, they'll, they'll point out to you, all of them have a favorite coach, whether it's one they have now, or it's when they head, you know, in literally, you know, or maybe it was a high school, whatever, you know, all of them have a favorite coach. All of them have somebody that's impacted their life for the good, you know, and, and so every single one of them can and they don't have to think about it.

[00:07:28] They know who that person is, you know what I mean? Um, and that's just how I think we get wrapped up in that, that mindset of being judged by our accomplishments and. So we're the ones who need to make it happen. And so, so asking for help or seeking community, seeking other people to go and do this, it's like, well, it almost kind of in our minds, it kind of invalidates our accomplishment.

[00:07:52] If we had to go ask for help, you know what I mean? And it's actually the opposite. 

[00:07:58] Dave: Yeah. And I see, I see the people [00:08:00] that I respect the most are quick to give honor or a quick to give, uh, give credit to other people too. And the ones that might seem like they're more or try and portray more self-made band are the ones that are like, you know, I, I, I did this, I did this, I did this. And then the ones that, that I respect, I'm sure a lot of us, if we look up to those, those people that are, you know, just really just stand up, people that are.

[00:08:22] Doing good in all areas, their lives are the ones that are quick to give honor to their, to their family, to their coaches, to their community, to all the people that, that help them get there. And not just to check a box of like, oh, this is what I'm supposed to do, but, but genuine, just gratitude for the people that have helped them get there.

[00:08:37] Cause because people don't do it on their own.

[00:08:39] Kyle: Yeah.

[00:08:39] absolutely. And, and that's that, there's that old, that old saying, if you, if you want to go fast, go alone. If you want to go far go together. Right. And that's, that's just how it works. You know what I mean? Um, Anybody that anything that you're trying to do, somebody else has already done it, or somebody else's has at least [00:09:00] done a part of it.

[00:09:00] You know what I mean? They have something to teach you. You know what I mean? And honestly, to me, that is, it's a learned skill for a lot of people. Of finding the right people that can teach them what they need to know. You know what I mean? And, and that's, that's a learned skill that in itself takes, it takes discipline and it almost takes you learning from another person of how to develop that skill.

[00:09:25] You know what I mean? Um, but, but it it's exactly what you said. A lot of the high performers that I know of and, and the people that I interact with they're there are people not only who will give. Credit to those people that have helped them along the way, but that's almost their default mode. Sometimes, you know, they at least get to a point where that skill is developed to the point where they ask, they ask who not how right there, that's a good book, by the way, you need to go read that book who not how, but that, but that book is all about finding people who can, people who can fill the role that you need, [00:10:00] especially in your business.

[00:10:01] Uh, instead of asking how do we solve this problem? Of asking who can solve this problem, go getting that person and putting them in your business. Right. So that they can take care of that specific thing. And that's kind of what high performers do is they go and find people who can teach them things so they can shortcut their learning curve and advance that much faster.

[00:10:23] Um, 

[00:10:25] Dave: Yeah, I, I think, uh, uh, I love all the points do, and there's, there's so much that we can learn from, you know, from those principles as people that have written books, you know, I think it's 25. Maybe if he originally said a success leaves clues, and that's something that it's like people have, have done what, what you probably want to do that we like to think where we're unique and we're doing with like, we're starting this business that no one's ever started.

[00:10:46] And even if it's a different product or service that you haven't seen offered, there's similarities that are gonna are going to get you to that next level. And I, uh, I want to dig into your story just a little bit to it, you know, being so involved in, in the, in the church [00:11:00] and in church planning and.

[00:11:01] Small groups and those things too. Cause, uh, like we were talking about before we hit record, is that the power of, of local community in that too, because I'm a big fan of, of learning and, and reading books. And I think there's, there's so many good, you know, mentors, you know, mentors that might be through a, through a book or we take these courses or even enroll in, in certain coaching groups and those things too.

[00:11:21] But if you're not really letting people into your life, maybe we can talk the difference between. Like learning from, from someone in their experience, reading the, reading, the biographies, learning about the Steve jobs and the basis and the Tony Robbins, like all these, all these, you know, maybe thought figures, but the difference between doing that and then actually like learning from someone locally doing, doing life with someone.

[00:11:42] Can you maybe talk that, the difference that, that, that kind of experience is going to get, especially in your experience with, uh, you know, with, with building churches of like, what, what are the differences between learning. Writing reading courses and then learning from experiences with other people on a regular basis.

[00:11:58] Kyle: And you're speaking my language now. I [00:12:00] love, I love that question. Um, You know, there there's, there's another old saying about never meet your heroes, right? Those, those are the people that you learn from, from afar. You kind of idolize them a little bit. You look up to them, there's things about them that have been projected to you that you perceive as things that you.

[00:12:17] To embody for yourself and things that maybe you even aspire to things that you wish you could do, but sometimes you meet those heroes, you meet those people and you have this picture of them, of what they're like. And it turns out they're a human being. You know what I mean? They're not, they're not a God, they're not immortal.

[00:12:32] They're a human being and they have flaws in there. Not the real person is not who you thought it was. And so I think that's why you can still get some of that as well in a local community. But I think in local community, There's less opportunity for that too, because you're not influencing someone from afar.

[00:12:52] You're influencing someone right in front of their face. And some of the most impactful people for me are people that you've never heard of. You know what I mean? [00:13:00] And it's the same thing for you. Like the, some of the most impactful people for you in your life and all the things that you're doing are people that I've never heard of.

[00:13:07] And I never will. And Yeah.

[00:13:09] But there are people that, that didn't do things for the notoriety and they didn't build a huge followings and all these kinds of things, but they've had huge impact on the people that they were able to be around. And, and I think especially like from the church, from a Christian perspective, uh, with the church, I feel like the internet and technology has given us this ability to, for pretty much any church who has a wifi connection and a camera to project, whatever it is that they're doing.

[00:13:38] All around the planet, you know what I mean? Um, and we could talk, you know, we could talk around in circles about how effective that could be. You know what I mean? I mean, even if it reaches one person, I think it's it's important, but at the same time they could, the church perspective should be, and is of [00:14:00] effecting the people who live next to next door.

[00:14:02] Right. And especially if you want to build a strong. Church within the church, not just reaching out to other people outside of the church, but if you want to build a strong church, the people within the church need to be linked together in a very strong and a very compassionate way. And the only way to do that is to get those people together and they need to live close to each other.

[00:14:25] They need to have similar, um, maybe not similar backgrounds, but at least similar experiences on a day to day basis. And those people need to be around each other. Frequently, um, because that's the way that we build strong relationships with people is through face-to-face interaction and nonverbal communication and things like that, that we talk about. 

[00:14:46] Dave: Okay.

[00:14:47] Kyle: That's just that's the power of local community is actually being together in the room with somebody. And, you know, there's so much value in the heroes, right? And the people that whose books [00:15:00] you read and you bother courses and you, you know, you go to their lab events and even if you go to their live event and you're in the same room with that person, like you mentioned Tony Robbins, like he, he's not going to meet everybody.

[00:15:13] You know what I mean? Like, even if you're in the same room with the guy, you're still seeing him from a distance, you know what I mean? And so that's, that's just the power local community takes care of that because you're, you're together with the people every day and you're building those interpersonal relationships the way that the strongest way. 

[00:15:34] Dave: Yeah. A couple of things that our staff from that too. And we mentioned vulnerability earlier, and if, if guard goes up right away, it's, you know, investing in more local relationships and just spending more time diving into those will, you know, if that's an uncomfortable word for a year and uncomfortable thought for you.

[00:15:48] Being around someone more regularly and letting them into your life, not just when things are, are perfect, but just being, being around them more and letting them in is a, that's a way to just, that's going to increase your vulnerability. You'll, you'll [00:16:00] have no choice if you're, if you're spending around that versus if you're keeping people at a distance and only, you know, only choosing select select times to, to be able to do that.

[00:16:08] So that was the first thing. Second thing I love, which is with, with influence in general of, you know, whether, whether that's someone you're, uh, you know, You know, look into that, that hero of, of knowing that they should, it should be authentic to what, you know, what you hear, if you do meet these people and, uh, in terms of what they're actually saying, broadcasting and they're following.

[00:16:27] But also if you have a, if you have a following, I know a lot of people listening are their social media followings now, and there's YouTube channels and there's businesses. And we have these amazing platforms, like you said, in the church, amazing technology to be able to broadcast our message, which could be used.

[00:16:43] For so much good, but could also be very detrimental if you're that person that has this big, big influence and people meet you. And they're like, Hey, you're not the, you're not the one that I've been following for, for all these years that can, that can really crush that just essentially, you know, in some ways you're racist the [00:17:00] last, however many months, years ago, Of content of stuff you've been pouring into.

[00:17:05] So I think there's, if you're in that position as, as one of those leaders to make sure that kind of do a heart check and do an audit and make sure that you are living the way that you are, that you're, uh, you know, broadcasting it out to, out to media out on, uh, out on a podcast like this, because, and I just had a friend I was talking to just got off a sabbatical and he had a, had went off to Phoenix to meet a, uh, What do you call it?

[00:17:29] Distant hero, you know, someone who he's been following. And he was like, it was so exciting for him, but he's also so nervous because he had met other people that, uh, that he had followed that he had met in person. It was just like, it was just such a let down and so empty because it wasn't the person. And he just came back so recharged and so fired up because this guy was like, Everything that he had been following insane was even even more so in person, it was like amplified versus being the other way around where it wasn't, where it wasn't, uh, wasn't connecting.

[00:17:58] I think that's the kind of, you know, men we [00:18:00] need to strive to be as the ones that, you know, the, the image that we have outward, you know, want people to come in and be able to feel that and get that, get that same experience, that same feeling, not just on social media or on whatever platform we might have.

[00:18:13] Kyle: Yeah.

[00:18:14] I think that, I think that comes with being honest and being genuine as well. And, you know, I think, I think, you know, people are going to listen to this and there, there are people who, who have that kind of influence on other people and the importance of that local community, those, those strong. Personal relationships that you have, um, flows into that, following that you're building, it flows into that, that whatever it is that you're projecting to other people, and it keeps you grounded, it grounds you. And if you are, if you're the person in, in your small groups, your small interpersonal relationships, if you're the same person there as you are in this image that you're projecting to the [00:19:00] world, That's a good thing.

[00:19:01] You know what I mean? And I feel like that's kind of what happens sometimes is when, when you don't have those strong personal relationships, so people that are close to you and be able to know who you are and keep you in check, keep you where you need to be like centered and focused. That's where things start to fall apart because.

[00:19:21] I feel like we can, I feel like we could project whatever we wanted out in the world. Like we could all be really great actors and just, we can turn it on and just, you know, show people whatever we want. And then just be total scumbags behind the scenes. You know what I mean? You need those people around you that can build you up and hold you in place so that you can be the same, no matter what, you know what I mean?

[00:19:42] And so you can kind of practice around these people that you're in person with what you're projecting to others that you may never meet. You know what I mean? You need to be able to put it into practice with actual people in real, in real life. Um, that way you can be in the proper mindset when you're trying to predict it to other people. [00:20:00] 

[00:20:00] Dave: Yeah. So the, the, the one thing to build off that too, is to give people permission, to speak into YouTube, to give people permission, to, to check you. And I, I think there's going to be two types of men listening to this. There's the ones that don't struggle as much with confidence and struggle a little more with, with humility.

[00:20:16] And I don't even say it's about like, as long as you have people that can check you though and, and be like, Yeah. Hey dude, like be able to call you out if you know, if that's getting out of control, if you're, if you're becoming prideful, if you're doing those things, but there's also people that, you know, struggle with with the confidence and they, they have a low sense of self-worth, they'll be the ones that'll bend over backwards to go to go do something for someone else, but they continue to break promises with themselves.

[00:20:40] They don't follow through on those things that they do. They don't think they're capable of achieving X or Y or Z they'll they'll they'll speak to other people. They'll be like, oh no, you can totally do that. And like, so encouraging. Yeah. There's self-talk in where it is, is not the same. And we need we in those situations to be, to be checked, to need, need friends and people, other men in your life to be able to say like, Hey, like, that's like, you're [00:21:00] not, you're not speaking true.

[00:21:01] Like, that's not true about you. Like, you be able to speak all the things that you are, speak the confidence, speak the life into people because there's some people walking around. And I know, uh, cause I was, I was there before and I've had other people that have come into my life then that I can now can now be able to.

[00:21:16] To see that, uh, be able to speak that encouragement because there's a lot of people that we, we put on this, our front, but inwardly where we're hurting and we don't feel worthy. And we don't feel like where we're able to receive these things and be able to have friends in your life to be able that, to speak that truth and life back into you is, is extremely important too.

[00:21:33] Kyle: Yeah.

[00:21:34] absolutely. Absolutely. And that the only way to do that is. You know what I mean? That's the only way. Um, and I, you see, you see this happen to people. You see people get, uh, especially today with the whole cancel culture thing, you know what I mean? And I'm not going to dive deep into that, but like, it's it, especially today is possible for your [00:22:00] broad reach audience to disappear overnight. You know what I mean? I mean, they, because they're digital, right. And if you, if you think about, you can think about it this way, like something that's digital, uh, you can unplug it or you can take the batteries out of it. It doesn't work. You know what I mean? Or this computer that we're, that I'm using. I mean, it's, it's charged up, it's on a battery, but like if somehow I remove the battery, this computer doesn't work.

[00:22:25] It instantly it's gone. You know what I mean? And so to me, yeah, Ask yourself, you know, if this broad reach audience that I'm trying to find, or this broad reach audience that I already have, um, if, if all that disappeared overnight, what would I be left with? Who would I be left with? Who would still be here in person?

[00:22:48] You know what I mean? Um, I mean, the truth of it is like people in person can disappear pretty quickly too. You know what I mean? But, but that makes a bigger impact on you in my [00:23:00] opinion, when it, when it's, when it's close together. But if you can, if you can put yourself in that scenario, say like my broad reach audience disappears overnight.

[00:23:08] I'll wake up tomorrow and pull out my laptop and I'm going to check on things and everything has gone. Who's still gonna be. You know what I mean? Do you have like a route, do you have like a starter, you know, like, like with sourdough bread, like, um, you have a starter, right. And you can just start a new loaf over and over and over again.

[00:23:27] Do you have that starter? Do you have that seed? Do you have that, that small community and people that are around you where you can just start? Yeah. Do you mean, or is it all hinges on that broad reach audience? If it's all hinging on that broad reach audience, everything could disappear. I mean, just like that it could be gone.

[00:23:45] You know what I mean? And so I think that that's the power of it is, and you can make a huge impact with just that small stuff. You know what I mean? You can make a huge impact with that small community of in-person people. It may not be, you know, I mean, do you [00:24:00] want to, do you want to touch a million lives?

[00:24:04] Or do you want to touch 10 people's labs and totally change them? You know what I mean? Total transformation where those people go in, touched him more. You know what I mean? And that's the question. Um, cause it could go away. It could go away so quickly. 

[00:24:18] Dave: Yeah, and requires being able to go against what culture says of build, build, build, grow, grow, grow, like you were talking, uh, before we hit record too, that the dangers and the church of that, of like the grow, the grow at all costs. And I, I think there's, there's definitely, you know, reasons in, in business and in church and in ministry to want to, you know, you want to get the message out, but not at the expense of the local relationships.

[00:24:40] And I think w would that be more in line with where Shane of, of not growing at the expense of the people, the people around you.

[00:24:46] Kyle: Yeah, absolutely. Um, you know, and I'm trying, I'm like in my head, as I'm talking about this, I'm bouncing back and forth, you know, between business and church, you.

[00:24:53] know, because, because you're, you're exactly right. And this is kind of what we were talking about before of, [00:25:00] um, the, the way the church is. Is operated today kind of in, in the United States, at least, um, at least when, when you think about big mega churches, right?

[00:25:12] Um, they, they operate the way businesses do. And like you go to trainings, you know, like ministry trainings and things like that. And they're using terms like marketing and branding, you know, and, and things like that. And, um, This, this is supposed to be a little different, you know, but when you operate like a business, that's how it, how it comes out.

[00:25:32] You know what I mean? And I think sometimes that can happen with the church is you get to a point where it's bill, bill built and you ignore what the crux of the church is supposed to be. And that it's that local community it's that local relationships, people who are not just coming to a huge. You know, has several thousand seat auditorium to listen to somebody, you know, but people who are going over to each other's houses on, you know, on multiple days a [00:26:00] week and having meals together, or their kids are going to, they're making a park and their kids are playing together or they're going on family vacations together and things like, and they're going out together in a community and they're serving and it's kind of the same thing with business.

[00:26:13] You know what I mean? It's like, Emma, am I reaching out? All over the place trying to grow. But those people is kind of what I was talking about earlier. They said broad reach audience, like, but those people have never met me in person. And they could go find another service and be gone without, without even a second thought, because there's not that connection.

[00:26:34] You know what I mean is that connect, like here's a better service. Maybe it's cheaper than your spoon. They're gone. You know what I mean? But with a personal connection and it takes more than that for somebody to walk away, you know what I mean? Um, and so they, they could keep coming to your business and keep bringing you business. Even if they could go find it cheaper somewhere, because I'm that way with certain businesses, especially like local stuff. Like there's, there's, there's a ton of places I could go, [00:27:00] you know, for, for different things than I want. But I find that local spot that treats me right. And it gives me what I need and what I'm looking for in whatever service or product that I'm, that I'm looking for.

[00:27:11] And I could get it cheaper on Amazon if I want to do it. You know what I mean? What, what can you not, you know, on Amazon now, but, um, but I go to that place. Because of that connection, you know what I mean? Because they know who I am. I know who they are that, you know, and we have this, we have this candidate and it's going to take a lot for me to switch sides, you know, to go somewhere else.

[00:27:33] Um, it's going to take, uh, a big, uh, really, really big negative experience for me to go somewhere else. 

[00:27:42] Dave: That's good. That's good. And if, if we, uh, I wanna change gears just a little bit here. If we, you know, talk just relationships in general and especially locally, what's the community speak on the importance of different, different kinds of relationships to have there because there's, you know, maybe some philosophy of surround yourself with people in similar [00:28:00] life seasons or having people that are.

[00:28:03] You know, ahead and behind you, you can, you, do you have, uh, some things you can touch on in terms of how to, and not like you want to be. And I don't, I don't want to sound like we're overly, like, you know, like, uh, like picking teams at every recess of like, I'm gonna pick them. I'm gonna pick that. Like, we don't get to choose all of our friendships.

[00:28:18] Some of them, you know, just coming to our, a lot of them come to our lives naturally, but how to, you know, make sure you have a good balance between people in similar life seasons people had people behind anything you want to touch on with that.

[00:28:29] Kyle: Yeah.

[00:28:29] You never want to put yourself in a, in a, in an echo chamber. Right. And that's just kind of with, with everything, but you never want to put yourself in a, in a situation where you're only around people who think and do. And operate exactly the way that you do, right? Um, that, that whole iron sharpens iron from, from the Bible, right.

[00:28:50] Is talking about men getting together and, and pouring into each other and helping each other advance. And in order for. Me to [00:29:00] advance properly. I mean, I could take somebody who's at my exact same level and we could advance together, but we're going to make the same mistakes together. We're both going to, if we're climbing up that mountain, like we're both going to step on the loose rock and we're both going to tumble down.

[00:29:12] Right. Versus having somebody who's already been up the mountain and no. That's loose gravel over there. We need to go this way, even if it's a shorter route to go through the loose gravel, you're going to fall back down the mountain and have to start over, but I've been there and I'm going to go this way.

[00:29:28] Right. And so that's kind of the thing as well. And I, and I had the same thing in, in ministry. I had, uh, I've had a network of people actually have multiple networks of ministers that I was, was a member of, and we were all different. Um, We all came from like different, different groups of the church, different denominations of the church.

[00:29:49] And we all had different experiences. We had all been in ministry for different periods of time. We had, you know, some of us grew up in the church. Some of us came to the churches as [00:30:00] adults, you know, things, just all different kinds of experiences. And I learned from every single one, you know what I mean, from all of them.

[00:30:07] And you take all of those things and put them together and then you process. And move forward with your, your way of doing things. You know what I mean? Um, and so I definitely think you need that, that mix, especially in business, especially with, um, if you want to have a million dollar company and you never go talk to someone who owns a million dollar company.

[00:30:30] I'm not saying you'll never make it. I'm just saying it's going to be a lot harder for you to have a million dollar company, if you've never learned from, or never connected with somebody who does. And, uh, you know, I can guarantee you there's people around you that have more money than you think. And I I'm thinking of where I grew up.

[00:30:47] There was an, there was a family over there that, and I grew up in a small town. You would never know they had the money that they had, but they were just, they were just freaking loaded, man, but it was just. The way that they live their [00:31:00] lives and you would never know it. And I just think you have to go looking for that kind of stuff.

[00:31:04] Um, and so you need, there's just different levels of relationships that you need personally, but then also with your business, you need people who are the same level as you. You need people who are above you. I feel like you also need somebody who's buying. 

[00:31:17] Dave: Hmm.

[00:31:18] Kyle: to go and I see you shaking your head.

[00:31:20] You're like, oh yeah. All right. He took my point now. Cause I know Dave, I know you are going to go there. Like, um, and that's, that's a principle from scripture as well of pouring into the people behind, right. Pouring it like specifically with, with, with Christianity, you're talking about like older people, mentoring younger people.

[00:31:38] Right. And, uh, And in business it's reaching behind and teaching something to somebody who's, who's trying to do the same thing that you're doing or trying to, you know, try to advance as well. Um, so you need people ahead. You need people at your same level and you need people behind cause you need to be pouring into somebody else because that, that advances you even [00:32:00] more than you would think 

[00:32:01] Dave: Yeah, so good. Yes. You, uh, you did, did beat me to the punch on that one. That's a, and for those that are familiar with scripture, it's, you know, I heard this originally in King's counsel, as it's ever needs a Paul in their life, a Barnabas and a Timothy. And it's those people, you know, the Paul's the mentor type.

[00:32:15] If you need those people that are, are pulling you up, but you also need people that are in the same, same season as you, that can walk alongside that are living those, those challenges out with you. But having that, that mentor to be a pull up, like you said, is something that. If you just think that what's in it for me mentality, it's easy to discount that that lasts that last piece of having, having people that you can mentor and build up.

[00:32:36] And there's, there's, there's too much scarcity out there is too much, like why don't, I don't want to help them. What if they, what if they supersede me and that's, uh, uh, that's on your own, uh, You know, self limiting beliefs of what you need to address it. If you're, if you're feeling that, because like you said, the positive that can come from like doing that, you'd be surprised how much that can, can fill you up.

[00:32:56] And I, and I know the people that, you know, the people that I've been [00:33:00] thankful enough to mentor the people that have mentored me, it's like they get just as much out of it. If, if the, uh, if it's the right relationship stuff, but someone who's willing to take what you're saying and, and apply it. And that's something to take note of if you're.

[00:33:12] If you're in the, if you're the mentee and getting mentored by someone, make sure that you're not taking their time and just discounting and make sure that you're doing everything. And like that's, that's how they get filled up is if you're, you know, if you're ready to ready to learn, ready to grow, ready to implement.

[00:33:28] And it'll, it'll frustrate the heck out of them, if you do do the opposite. But same thing, if you're, you know, if you're finding people to mentor, find people that are, you know, willing and ready to learn and grow from you. And that's how we can, can have such a positive image.

[00:33:41] Kyle: Yeah. And, and that's, that's another person, all of those people. I think, I think we talked earlier about like having people who can keep you grounded people who can check you. Right. Um, but all of those, those three different kinds of relationships, all three of them are going to do. Right. It's not just the people [00:34:00] who are right next to you who are the same as you, you know, who are keeping, but the person above.

[00:34:04] Yeah. Is going to check you, right. They're going to say, it's just like what you said. Like if you come in and you really just, it's really just about you and you're not really respecting where they come from and what they have to offer you. And, um, your ultimate goal is to surpass them. And you're just trying to take a little bit from you can go past them.

[00:34:23] They're going to keep you in check and the way they keep you in check is cutting you off. Right. Because they have the ability to do that. And they're like, Okay.

[00:34:30] you're just, you're, you know, you're, you're a fly on my desk. Like go away. You know what I mean? Like, I don't need you here. Um, and so that keeps you in check and of course the people at your same level, keep you in check.

[00:34:41] Cause you're, you're moving together. Right. But then the person behind you keeps you in check exactly what we were talking about earlier with the whole hero thing. Right. Um, that person learning from you. Make sure it works on you. Um, making sure that you're squared away, [00:35:00] make sure that you've got everything tightened up and you're doing what you're practicing, what you preach, because if you're trying to teach somebody how to do something, but you're not doing it, like you're.

[00:35:11] At the, at the best you're, you're teaching somebody the wrong way to do something and you're helping them out at the worst. You're teaching somebody the wrong way to do something and you're hampering their progress. And maybe even teaching them how to go teach somebody else how to do the wrong thing.

[00:35:26] You know what I mean? Um, and, and so all three of those types of relationships, keep you in check for what it is that you're supposed to be doing. And That's why they're also important. And, and to me, you can have those distance. For all three of those types of people.

[00:35:42] Dave: Hm.

[00:35:43] Kyle: But to me, there's just nothing in the world that beats that personal relationship.

[00:35:48] Like if you personally know a millionaire, And you can go talk to that person and they give you their time. You know what I mean? And like they had that relationship with you that you [00:36:00] can go and ask them if they want you to come and ask and they want to pass on. I think that's what a lot of people misunderstand is like people that rates a certain level, they want to pass it on to somebody.

[00:36:09] You know what I mean? They want to, if they have that growth mindset, you know, that, that fixed mindset that they probably don't. But, um, But having that growth mindset, they want to pass it on to someone. They want to help somebody else succeed because they get something out of it too. You know what I mean?

[00:36:24] Um, and it's the same thing with the person behind you. It's like no one, somebody that, that you can help you get something out of it. And it even helps you hone your skills even further by helping somebody else.

[00:36:38] Dave: That's so good, man. This is all been so good. And, uh, I love 

[00:36:41] Kyle: like I've been rambling a lot. Dave, you got to cut me off sometimes. 

[00:36:44] Dave: I don't. Uh, I don't, I don't jump in unless, uh, unless I need to, you don't do ramble, man. You're you're nailing it. So, uh, but I want to summarize it out for people because I think people hear this and they can. No, it's it's it's it sounds good.

[00:36:56] It's and maybe there's introverts out there. Maybe it's just, well, I'm too busy, this or [00:37:00] that. Like, what's a, you know, what's an action step we can give. So like how, how can someone apply this if they're like, yes, I don't, I don't have that. I don't have that, that local community. That's that's missing. Like.

[00:37:11] That's intimidated, like making friends, we haven't had to do that for like, that's 

[00:37:14] Kyle: I know, right? 

[00:37:14] Dave: do in grade school. It was intimidating, you know, in middle school and in high school. But like, it's, it's so real thing. Like how do we, how do we go about forming these relationships? It's not like the first person you're going to reach out to you.

[00:37:24] You're going to become best friends, like on a, on stepbrothers or anything. It's not like you're going to just meet someone and it's going to, it's going to be that instant, instant, best friend connection. But like what, what, uh, Yeah. W what can you, what can you encourage them with? What can, uh, what kind of, you know, uh, application could someone, could someone take from this?

[00:37:41] If they realize that this part of their life is, is missing or lacking?

[00:37:45] Kyle: Uh, this is, this is kind of hard for me to answer because I am such an extroverted person like, um, meeting new people, building, building relationships, and especially my, my background as a minister, like that's, that's your job, you know what I mean? You build [00:38:00] relationships. Um, that's, that's your whole purpose.

[00:38:02] So, um, so this isn't, this has never been super tough for me. You know what I mean? It's just, uh, I get to a point where I know there's something that I need to know. And so my gut instinct is go find somebody who knows that thing, you know? And sometimes it's somebody that I know personally, sometimes it's a book, sometimes it's an article, you know, or a podcast or something like, like, I need to know how to do something.

[00:38:25] I'm going to go find somebody who knows how to do that thing. I'm going to find out from them how to do that thing. Um, but, but my wife is super introverted. Right. And so she's just kind of. She's not, she's not as much about the whole, the whole going out and meeting new people in those kinds of things.

[00:38:44] Um, but I would say being honest with yourself about where you stand in that, and being honest with yourself about how many people you need, you need around you in order to operate. Properly right. For me, I [00:39:00] actually, I get a lot of energy from being around a lot of different people and knowing a lot of different people and having conversations with a lot of different people, but a lot of different things.

[00:39:09] I just get energy from that. You know what I mean? My wife needs like two or three people. She's good. You know what I mean? That's it, that that's all she needs, you know? So I can learn from a bunch of different people, you know, on a bunch of different things. My wife needs. Here's this one person who teaches me this thing, here's this one person that I do this with.

[00:39:30] Here's this one person that I'm teaching someone else. Good to go. Um, and so I just think, I think it'd be an honest with yourself on what you need and based on your personality, um, and doing some deep introspection on what you need, um, is probably the first step to all those things. Um, as far as reaching out to people, I feel like, I feel like sometimes you gotta just kill someone.

[00:39:53] You know what I mean? Sometimes you just gotta go do it. You know what I mean? Cause if you need it, you're going to go get it. You know what I mean? And again, [00:40:00] that's easy for me to say as an extrovert, you know, cause many people is not hard for me, but, but especially if you're talking about business, um, if you're going to own your own business and operate your own business, you're going to have to interact with other people. It's just how it works. I mean, you're going to have to do that. And so, um, It doesn't mean you need to go interact with a bunch of people at once, but if you can find one person, you start interacting with that person. Figure some stuff out about yourself and be, and be introspective with those, with those relationships and just kind of learn how you operate within those kinds of relationships.

[00:40:39] Right. And, and just be honest with yourself and be, be very open to being uncomfortable. And I think that's something that we, that, that we all get, even those of us that are extra, like if I had to be by myself for long period of time, That's uncomfortable for me, Dave, that's killing comfort for me. You know, it's like having to be alone and not having anybody to talk to for a long period of time.

[00:40:59] [00:41:00] You know what I mean? That's, that's uncomfortable. Some people are like, man, that's my dream. You know what I mean? Like nobody ever talking to me, that's pretty nice, you know? But, um, I just, I think it being, being honest with yourself with what you need and how you operate, um, is probably the first step to that.

[00:41:16] And maybe that's helpful, maybe it's not, but it's just. It, if you're going to progress forward, you had to be honest with yourself of, of who you are and how you operate. And that's going to tell you who you need around you in order to help you keep it. 

[00:41:32] Dave: No. I love that. I think, uh, the introspection is a big first piece. Cause if you don't. If you don't know what you're looking for, if you don't know where you're heading, it's important to know that first and know the type of, to be aware of the type of people that you need in your life to help you get there.

[00:41:46] But also, I mean, I love feeling comfort, getting out of your comfort zone. That's something that, uh, if this podcast strikes a chord, you can't just go order another book and find other podcasts on it and try and listen and read your way to everything about relationships, it's [00:42:00] know, relationships.

[00:42:01] Challenging for, for a reason and being able to get out there. And it, it doesn't mean, you know, we're both, it doesn't mean go to it. You know, you have to go to a networking event and be in that awkward situation where exchange of business cards with people, but like just, you know, getting to get to know people and, and getting the, getting the reps with that.

[00:42:16] If it's something that you might've might be lacking in a, in a local sense, or maybe you already know those people that it's a. There's a certain level you're at with someone of trying to take that a step deeper. Is it just being able to, you know, do some of those things we talked about of just being out to spend more time outside of, you know, structure, you know, the, the, the times where everything's are just right.

[00:42:37] Of like actually letting people in and facilitating some of those conversations that can be hard for guys to have, but just being able to go deeper, not keep it all, keep it all surface level too is another way you might already have those people there. And just matter of unlocking that to, uh, to deeper.

[00:42:51] Kyle: Yeah.

[00:42:52] I would say, um, one of the, one of the best friendships I have is this guy that, um, we, we, [00:43:00] we moved churches recently when I, when I, um, got out of full-time ministry, but he's somebody that I went to church. At the place that I was serving as minister, and we started this thing, we were trying to start this man small group there, uh, where we got together, you know, on Friday mornings we would meet at a coffee shop and, you know, try to get there early, you know, before people had to be at work and all that kind of stuff.

[00:43:21] And we tried this try to start in this small group and it just kind of fizzled out to the point where it was just me and him. Right. But the two of us have been meeting every Friday at seven 30 at a coffee. For like two and a half years now. You know what I mean? And it's like that small group that we were trying to start, it was like we had a purpose with that group.

[00:43:42] You know, we wanted, we wanted a group of guys, you know what I mean? Who, who could get together and could kind of do this thing together and learn from each other and all that kind of stuff, but it just kind of fizzled out and it would have been easy for saying, you know what, you're fizzled out, no big deal, but it's.

[00:43:58] No, we both have [00:44:00] gotten so much out of that relationship. We've grown. Our friendship has grown so deep. So deep just from, I mean, it's in my calendar. Like work doesn't even start on Fridays until after my coffee meeting, you know what I mean? Every single week. And that's just how it goes, you know what I mean?

[00:44:15] And even during the pandemic, like we would do. We're going to go out on our porches with our phones and we'd still drink our coffee, but we'd do FaceTime, you know, just checking in, you know, just seeing how things are going and how life is going. And, um, so maybe for, you know, maybe. Introverts, maybe that's what it is.

[00:44:33] Maybe you find one person and you just give it Tom. You know what I mean? It's fine. One, one thing that the two of you can do together and just give it time and just see how it works. You know what I mean? And see what comes out of that because our relationship is definitely a lot different than it was when we first started.

[00:44:49] You know, we didn't even hardly know each other when we first started and now like, you know, he's one of my closest friends and it's really just something, something really simple. Um, so start. [00:45:00] But, but be patient and be honest and give it some time and just say how it works out. 

[00:45:04] Dave: Yeah, so good. Uh, I was loved that love the time I'll, uh, I'll make sure to link up our first two podcasts we did too. So if anyone wants to go back in the archives and dig into those, but, uh, any, any last parting words or, or places where, uh, you know, people can, can reach out and connect or what do you, what are you going to leave the listeners with here today?

[00:45:22] Kyle?

[00:45:23] Kyle: Uh, what am I going to leave you with? Um, my, my infinite wisdom here. No. 

[00:45:28] Dave: Limited.

[00:45:29] Kyle: Yeah, I've just, I've given everything away. All of it. It's all gone. It's all. I've done three podcasts now. That's all I have to offer, you know, um, really the only place to find me is. Um, um, just call Carlstrom on Instagram and, uh, if you misspell it, then, sorry you missed me.

[00:45:50] Um, um, Kasha I'm on Instagram, this the only place to find me. Um, I would just say. [00:46:00] it is this, this whole thing that we're talking about about community, especially now, and in with the pandemic, in, in with, uh, different places being shut down and, you know, lots, lots of things going digital and all that kind of stuff.

[00:46:14] Like people need people. And I think that's one thing that I've really learned, uh, over the pandemic is just how, how much people need to be. And we, we just can't this whole local community thing that we're talking about here is just so important because it's the way that we were made. And so, um, I would just say parting words, don't, don't take it for granted.

[00:46:36] Don't take that, that, those personal relationships for granted those relationships, you already have, make sure to prioritize them. You know what I mean, build them up, you know, and those, those relationships that you're going to have in the future that are going to project you forward, prioritize them.

[00:46:51] Don't. Don't let them fall by the wayside. You know what I mean? Because, because people need people, that's just the way that we have, that's just the way that we're made. [00:47:00] And, um, so just, just make sure that you're, that you're focusing on it. 

[00:47:04] Dave: Yeah, love it. The wisdom continues, Kyle and I, I appreciate you coming on, man. I always do. I always enjoy our times. And uh, if you guys are, you know, it's, it's helpful to get feedback. If, if an episode like that. You know, and I know this isn't the, you know, relationships are so important, but sometimes it's, it's easy to, to just dive into, you know, strategy and execution and business and personal growth and those things too, and gloss over these things that like, oh yeah, yeah, we need, we need relationships in those things too.

[00:47:30] But, you know, we decided to go deep on this for, for a reason because we think it's w we, we, don't just, we don't just take time out of, out of our day into an important something like this. If we don't, if we don't think it's highly valuable. And, and if you guys found this valuable. You know, if this, if this struck a chord in any way, uh, I just want you to just shoot me a text at 7 6 0 4 7 7 4 3 6 1.

[00:47:48] Just text me the word community. And, uh, we'd love to hear you guys. Guys' thoughts on what you guys feedback you guys have for us in this one. And if this was, if this was helpful for you guys, it would be amazing to hear from you guys always go getting [00:48:00] feedback. We're always trying to improve in terms of the content we can have on it.

[00:48:03] Who knows. We know Kyle will be on it sometime again in the future. So we can find, uh, another, another topic or follow up on this. But, uh, Kyle, thanks again, man. I really do appreciate it. Appreciate your time and appreciate you pouring into our listeners. And for going out there, we'll talk to you guys soon.

[00:48:17] Thanks for listening today, guys, unbelieving that even if you apply one thing from today's show, you're taking one step closer to living as the man you were made to be meaningful change doesn't happen overnight. So keep showing up and keep consistent every single day until good things start to happen.

[00:48:33] If you haven't already taken 60 seconds to write a review on whatever platform you're listening on, goes a long way in growing this podcast and reaching other men, just like you, that are hungry for more. Do you have any questions on today's show feedback or content you want to see more of shoot me a text.

[00:48:50] Yeah, text me 7 6 0 4 7 7 4 3 6 1 at 7 6 0 4 7 7 4 3 6 [00:49:00] 1. Let me know that you're listening to it. And so I can personally thank you for your support of myself and the show. That's it for today, guys, it's time to raise your standard for yourself. Stop settling for just getting by, go all in on your passions in the Lightroom made for a lot of you guys and talk to you soon.

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